Perk the WiberlWind!!

[waystin2]

No need to perk the Wirby HTC.  Please disregard this thread, and I am truly sorry that your valuable time was taken up by such a baseless claim.

[moot]

The number of kills it has is astounding, but the number of deaths probably has a lot to do with GVs killing WWs as well. I haven't checked recently, but last time I did it had a lot of deaths to other GVs.

Vs aircraft alone I bet the kills/deaths ratio is astronomical.

This GV is seriously being abused, IMO. That's just how I feel about it.

Let's see.... 8000+ deaths, at a perk price of (let's say) 20 perks, that's 160,000 perks that would have been lost this week's losses alone.

Yes, even a small perk price would be enough to curtail the use of this thing. It wouldn't disappear, but it would stop the mini-hordes of 12+ wirblewinds sitting next to each other.

Curtail what Krusty?  When did you get caught by the WW last?  I ran into maybe half a dozen of them, and all it took was a minimum of SA to see the icon, or suspicious dot before the icon, and just steer clear.  When was the last time you actualy had a WW problem that 2.5klbs wouldn't solve?  1 player in a WW isn't enough to stop 1 other player from dropping the VH, and giving the "WW problem" it's "final solution".
Above are bolded arguments not backed by concrete data.   The actual fact is that 1 quick strafe of the turret will disable it, or failing that, a pre-emptive strafe of supplies, or failing that (which anyone with some sense knows), 2,500 lbs into the VH definitely suffices.

This is as off the wall as complaining about man acks.  Just kill them in the first place, end of story.

[Rich46yo]

Its also made it so people can hide at their base with 10 WW in the runway. Never to come out of the ack. 

                      So the war was different? Actually it was common for ME-163 comet sticks to come into their bases fast, and then circle to do their slow downs for their landings ,while friendly ack kept the wolves at bay. Imagine what would have happened to an actual war enemy fighter coming into an alerted airfield to shoot down friendlies who were circling? It would be a good day indeed if you survived that adventure. Airstrip attacks always demanded the advantage of surprise and coordination. Something you dont see much in this game.

                     Ive seen these 30 min vulch sessions both from the ground and the air. 20 or 30 guys circling and airfield shooting airplanes on the strip while a nearby town hasn't even been touched. Oh and the screams and whines about "stealing kills" I tellya I just cant stand them. With the Whirbels now Im starting to see more teamwork and coordination. I do believe they have elevated CV play as well cause a CV can get near and always has ords up. And you have to have ords now for the Whirbels.

                   Course nobody bothers with the ords at nearby bases to CVs but one step at a time.

[BnZ]

People have always hid in their ack, WW's dangerous range isn't as long as the auto-acks BTW. Furthermore, I have seen the situations where one hears people complaining about ack-huggers on range...numerous attackers with massive alt advantages, and they are whining because 1-3 devils are trying to get a little alt or wait for help to arrive inside their ack.

It has always been ridiculously easy to avoid getting killed by AA fire. If you don't want to get whacked by flak huggers, hang in there and watch them hug till your heavies bring down the VH and the WWs are being carpet bombed. Then you can even vulch again, although you ought to consider actually capturing the base before the VH comes back up. Or back off a little bit to draw them out of their ack.

BTW, let us all keep in mind that effective range on the WW is, maximum, 2K. That is 6000 feet. A mere 6000 feet above the ground will keep you out of trouble from them. As compared to 10,000 feet for the auto-ack we already had.

[Blammo]

If it gets perked, so should the XVI.  I mean that, too, is just too much of a "skill-less" crutch right? 

Sounds good to me...

Or, the alternative, is to remove the perks from everything.  After all, if people will learn the right tactics then all the perk planes/vehicles can be easily defeated, right?

There is this constant assertion that people want the WW perked because they want to vulch/don't know how to kill them/don't know how to avoid them.  Probably true in some cases, but not all.  I get killed occassionally by them, but for the most part I either avoid them or kill them.  I don't worry about vulching as I am trying to improve my abilities and so I don't run the runway much anymore.  I just believe they are getting abused (in the same fashion that 262s would be abused if they were not perked).

The WW, next to the Jeep, are the easiest cartoon ride in the game.  It's all just point and shoot.  I have taken the WW out and can tell yeah, it takes very little effort to get kills in them at a con that is 1.5K out.  I get kills at 2 K out pretty easily and I don't do GVs that much.

But, you guys are right...you have convinced me.  I think all perks should done away with.  All we have to do is learn the right way to fight them and then it will be easy peasy  

[moot]

remove the perks from everything.  After all, if people will learn the right tactics then all the perk planes/vehicles can be easily defeated, right?

Not without a rework/rebalancing of the perk points system.

There is this constant assertion that people want the WW perked because they want to vulch/don't know how to kill them/don't know how to avoid them.  Probably true in some cases, but not all.  I get killed occassionally by them, but for the most part I either avoid them or kill them.  I don't worry about vulching as I am trying to improve my abilities and so I don't run the runway much anymore.  I just believe they are getting abused (in the same fashion that 262s would be abused if they were not perked).

Well first you say they're not a problem, but then you say they're being abused, without saying how.  Why are they being abused, and should they consequently be perked?

The WW, next to the Jeep, are the easiest cartoon ride in the game.  It's all just point and shoot.  I have taken the WW out and can tell yeah, it takes very little effort to get kills in them at a con that is 1.5K out.  I get kills at 2 K out pretty easily and I don't do GVs that much.

Point & shoot the same as it is for any planes, even a Spit or Hurricane mk I (arguably more so, maybe!).  I think the ease of 2K kills is deceptive.  Most guys who miss (e.g.) rope shots, or deflection shots, sometimes come very close, and often come very close very often.  Lots and lots of people aim the Ostie well, but the dispersion spoils their apreciation of how close they are at getting the one and only impact they need for a kill.  Same with MK108s.
If the WW wasn't so easy to disable, if it had more range than 1.7K, and if it rode faster than the standard 25mph, it would probably be worth perking.. As it is, it is just proof that most players have gotten too used to the biased planeset.  That is, a planeset that's not quite like WWII really was.  WWII wasn't a time and place you wanted to be low and slow, as far as AAA was concerned.   

But, you guys are right...you have convinced me.  I think all perks should done away with.  All we have to do is learn the right way to fight them and then it will be easy peasy  

Well, it is already easy peasy.  The real problem players are experiencing at least 9 times out of 10 is using the wrong tactics.  Just like they don't bother with learning ACM, practicing gunnery till it's as boiled down to second nature requiring as little conscious thought as possible, with honing their SA, with getting a good sense of furball dynamics, of the rhythm of vulching, or of the basics of tactics (ordnance and/or shore batteries and/or VHs and/or MAN ACKS at the top of the short list on a field raid, or a minimum of decoy/tag team tactics when attacking a WW/OW/bomber).

[BnZ]

The whole notion that Wirbles are being "abused" rests on the fact that lots of them are being used, and Ostis aren't being used so much.

I'm sorry, but that is a poor argument. If there were only two buffs, the B-24 and the B-17, and the B-17 was slightly porked, you'd probably see the B-24 flown on 90% of bombing missions. Wouldn't be an argument for perking it though.

[Krusty]

Moot, the only "right" tactic for a WW is to avoid it.

So, as soon as the WWs show up, we all RTB and log off?

Seriously... Sometimes you need to take a field. Sometimes you are putting in an effort. Sometimes, like what happened a couple weeks ago, you get WWs escorting panzers and tigers that camp ON your RUNWAYS (ignoring the town) in a totally disruptive mission. You try to defend against this with "right" tactics for a WW and... oh, wait, we've left the area and let them take it undefended.

You go into the fight more you'll see more WWs. They are predominant amongst GVs right now.

BnZ: M16s have laser accuracy but short range/damage. Osty has long range but low accuracy/hit%. Here's the WW with ... aparently... 2.5k firing range, near laser accuracy, instant kill shots from any hit, and not only that but instead of finding 1-2 osties at a field you'll find 20+ WWs. I'd call that abusing it.

P.S. I *DID* try to get the B24 perked some time ago. 90% of all bombers are B24s these days, and they are by far the most capable bomber at defending themselves and still striking the enemy, the fastest and highest flying unperked plane. With the ueslessness of the Ar234, I considered it a worthy thing to perk (so at least SOMETHING on the bomber side was worth spending points on! say 10 perks or something). This idea didn't go anywhere tho. No word from HTC on the matter.

[Lusche]

Here's the WW with ... aparently... 2.5k firing range, near laser accuracy, instant kill shots from any hit,

But actual max range is only 1700yds, with a huge trajectory drop. Accuracy is indeed very high, but drops off rapidly >800. Few people can kill  crossing targets at 1.5k. And no, there is defenitely no "instant kill" from any hit. Many planes can absorb one or even two 20mm hits when not hitting a critical component like oil cooler, cockpit or vertical stab.

[Blammo]

Few people can kill  crossing targets at 1.5k. And no, there is defenitely no "instant kill" from any hit. Many planes can absorb one or even two 20mm hits when not hitting a critical component like oil cooler, cockpit or vertical stab.

Guess I am just lucky to be or to be around those that can get those rare crossing 1.5K shots.  I sure see it an awful lot.

[BnZ]

Moot, the only "right" tactic for a WW is to avoid it.

, you get WWs escorting panzers and tigers that camp ON your RUNWAYS (ignoring the town) in a totally disruptive mission. You try to defend against this with "right" tactics for a WW and... oh, wait, we've left the area and let them take it undefended.

You go into the fight more you'll see more WWs. They are predominant amongst GVs right now.

BnZ: M16s have laser accuracy but short range/damage. Osty has long range but low accuracy/hit%. Here's the WW with ... aparently... 2.5k firing range, near laser accuracy, instant kill shots from any hit, and not only that but instead of finding 1-2 osties at a field you'll find 20+ WWs. I'd call that abusing it.

P.S. I *DID* try to get the B24 perked some time ago. 90% of all bombers are B24s these days, and they are by far the most capable bomber at defending themselves and still striking the enemy, the fastest and highest flying unperked plane. With the ueslessness of the Ar234, I considered it a worthy thing to perk (so at least SOMETHING on the bomber side was worth spending points on! say 10 perks or something). This idea didn't go anywhere tho. No word from HTC on the matter.

I go into the fight enough. BTW, I long ago learned to assume that any plane diving to the deck on me is either running to flak, ack, or friends, and have learned to let them go or proceed carefully. I see it this way if you're fighting for the map, rather than just having fun furballing (I don't have a problem with either approach): On defense, the fighters main job or at least a huge part of it is to prevent buffs and attack aircraft from destroying crap on the ground, whack goons, and protect the GVs, on offense, your main job is to distract the fighters enough to allow the buffs and attack aircraft to destroy buildings, hangers, and GVs until you render the enemy base helpless, then capture it. Air superiority through fighter-on-fighter stuff in this context is for the purpose of achieving these two ends.

Wirble-vulch-camping, yeah well, thats not too cool a situation to run into, but nothing is an unmixed blessing. The extent to which it cancels out airplane vulching is a more than makes up for it. So a bunch of wirbels and tanks huh? Well, sorry, that is called bringing a horde to the fight, sucks, but it happens, no matter the tools. If they ain't trying to take the base though, doesn't that give the defenders more time to up some buff formations from another base and bomb them into oblivion?

I'm sorry, I just don't think the WW is pinging crossers at 2K often at all. I never even try on a crosser that doesn't come within 1000. Often enough on crossers, I get flashes and get only a smoking engine, fuel leaks, or nothing. And I have often been killed by a dive-bomber who releases at 1.5K and pulls off without landing a single return hit, so sorry, the things are very killable. Just not in a close range head-on gunfight.

BTW, I intercept all the loaded buffs I can, and the B-24's strong points are made up for by the fact that one pass at a steep angle and 400+mph is still enough to set the wingtank on fire. And I see at least as many lancs as B-24s. We don't need to go to perking heavies, except the jet, people nee incentive to fly buffs. Perks for extra planes in the formation, now that would be worth spending points on, ESPECIALLY to eliminate Wirble hordes.

[Krusty]

Guess I am just lucky to be or to be around those that can get those rare crossing 1.5K shots.  I sure see it an awful lot.

I get bracketed by a couple of folks whom I shant name at 2.5-3k well outside icon range of even their GV from me, and they are VERY close to hitting me (rounds missing me by inches) as well as any shot they fire inside 1.5k is instant kill, even at bad angles on highly-manuvering planes.

Like I said, I won't name names til the films are submitted to HTC. 

[hubsonfire]

Rubbish, I say, rubbish!

[BnZ]

I get bracketed by a couple of folks whom I shant name at 2.5-3k well outside icon range of even their GV from me, and they are VERY close to hitting me (rounds missing me by inches) as well as any shot they fire inside 1.5k is instant kill, even at bad angles on highly-manuvering planes.

Like I said, I won't name names til the films are submitted to HTC. 

Dude, if you imply they are cheating somehow, shame on them!, but that has nothing to do with the regular wirble as modeled by HTC and aimed by the regular player using the standard-issue MkI eyeball.

[Rich46yo]

                      The problem with crossing shots at 1,500k are the sights. You cant use zoom cause you'll lose the airplane for the lead and if you dont use zoom, even if you can still see the plane around the sight frames, 1,500k, or yards, is a long ways off. Ive killed planes with this shot, and Ive done it with M16s, but not often. And a run90 or runstang coming in at warp factor 9 is extremely difficult to hit.

                    And 1,500 is about when I start shooting. The exception is an HO where I'll start at 2,000 with a WW. With an HO I'll lay a cloud of 20mm in front of him to fly into and then start tracking with bursts at 1,500. But 2.5 to 3,000 yrds? I'd like to see that film. Im not going to say I dont believe you but this must be the Annie Oakly of Wirbeling. Thats a very difficult shot to make with a 37mm. Truth is any shot past 1,500 is a long shot with a wirbel, the longest Ive made is around 2,000 yrds.