Author Topic: curious...why is LA7 not perked?  (Read 4536 times)

Offline Noir

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2008, 07:33:36 PM »
unperk spit14 ! perk the N1K !
now posting as SirNuke

Offline Bucky73

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2008, 08:40:02 PM »
1.  With 4 Hispanos, even a snapshot from a Tempest can end your flight.--With 6 LAZER 50's well placed your dead in a hurry

2.  Tempest is faster at low/med altitude where most fights in AH occur. ---Not dramatically

3.  Tempest will outclimb the Pony. Yes

4.  Sorry, but the Tempest will out-turn the Pony.--- NOPE



Offline Lusche

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2008, 08:50:29 PM »
1.  With 4 Hispanos, even a snapshot from a Tempest can end your flight.--With 6 LAZER 50's well placed your dead in a hurry

Note the restriction you are setting! "Well placed". The BIG difference is, with 4 Hispanos they don't need to be well placed at all.

2.  Tempest is faster at low/med altitude where most fights in AH occur. ---Not dramatically

More than 20mph actually is dramatically. Tempest can run from Pony at will, Pony can't run from Tempest, unless in a narrow band around 12k or above 21. In both cases, the Temp can just dive away. Also keep in mind that the Tempest has considerable better acceleration and wins every drag race - at sea level 200 to 250mph Pony 14.2 Tempest 9.9 seconds.

3.  Tempest will outclimb the Pony. - Yes

A very decisive advantage. Rob the Pony's E, then keep fighting nose up

4.  Sorry, but the Tempest will out-turn the Pony.--- NOPE

You are completely wrong. Pony has a chance when keeping turns relatively fast, so it can drop 1 notch of flaps. No flaps as well as full flaps Tempest turns tighter.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 08:52:19 PM by Lusche »
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Offline Bucky73

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2008, 08:54:20 PM »
With that kind of logic, you will end up having all better late war rides perked. New players, or simply those not playing often enough to build up major skill levels or a considerable amount of perks will have to resort to much less capable rides, while players like me can easily afford flying late war rides all day.
Horrible idea. Wouldn't do any good to the game. A huge part of the appeal of this game is the fact that you can hop in and have fun. Limiting people's choices for some obscure reasons is not fun.

Regarding to Vets Arena:
- The basic premise that "vets"  fly, act, fight, or behave themselves better is wrong. Skill, behaviour, knowledge isn't tied to game time.
(And I'm sure many long timers will laugh at the thought 2 years would make you a "vet ;))
- Trying to seperate new from older players is a bad idea for community and the future of aces high? Want to get new players to a better standard? Train them, help then, educate them, but not with an elitist "vet" attitude.



Well then why even perk the tempy, c-hog, 262, or 163?? Whats the point?

I don't mind training players that make an attempt to train themself....But, the guy that logs on and ask's "how do I start my plane?"  will not get help from me because obviously they are one of these ARCADE guys that want instant action without doing any *cough* READING about it first.

Guess I'm just a guy that likes the feeling you get when you EARN something and not just have it given to you like so many spoiled brats these days. Sad, these are the same kids we had to ban dodgeball for and get rid of jump ropes because *sniff* some kids could jump twice on a skip and others couldn't so as not to hurt their feelings we have to pretend to have a jump rope in their hands.

F n Sad


Btw...you will have to show me that the tempy turns tighter sometime.....I'm not a great gamer but I have yet to see that happen in 4 years of playing.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 08:56:56 PM by Bucky73 »

Offline Lusche

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2008, 08:55:15 PM »

Well then why even perk the tempy, c-hog, 262, or 163?? Whats the point?

The point has been brought up so often in this thread...  :rolleyes:
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Offline ShrkBite

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2008, 08:57:00 PM »
LA7 should be perked 10-15. hands down

Offline Bucky73

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2008, 08:58:33 PM »
The point has been brought up so often in this thread...  :rolleyes:

And has yet to be answered....

Offline Lusche

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2008, 09:36:57 PM »
And has yet to be answered....

Again?  :huh  :rofl


Regarding to Tempest vs Pony turn:



Utility by Spatula, Data by MOSQ:
Test:
500 ft.
Fuel 25% unless noted.
Fuel Burn .0001.
Stall Limiter: OFF.
Combat Trim: OFF.
WEP: ON.
All turns Counter Clockwise.
Altitude maintained +/- 50 ft.
Speed maintained +/- 3 mph. E6B used to watch speed.

See also (among others)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,166537.msg1889964.html#msg1889964
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,212801.0.html
http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php


And that's it from me for this thread. I'm afraid it would only degrade further - I don't want to be blamed for that ;)
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Offline DrDea

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2008, 09:46:57 PM »
Hell, I'd pay alot more for just an arena that only 2 year or more "vets" could play in. It seems that most (not all) that have lasted this long are usually looking for a good clean fight and have a sort of respect for their fellow players.

 And would you also have HT boot the "vets" that HO Cause I see alot of that in the MA too.Im damn near to the point where if its a choice of giving them a deflection trying to avoid the HO Im just gonna slide down in the seat and Head on.Apply directly to the cockpit.Head on.Apply dirrectly to the cockpit.It isnt just noobs doing the HO.And I'll take a facefull of LA7 over a tempy or aa 190A8 anyday.
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Offline Angry Samoan

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2008, 10:30:45 PM »
Credit to the OG.


 :confused:

Offline NoBaddy

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2008, 11:02:07 PM »


Just what is the logic behind the LA-7 not being perked?  :confused:



The logic is simple. No one has convinced HT that it deserves to be perked. :)
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Offline Bucky73

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2008, 11:37:05 PM »
 :rofl :rofl :rofl

Angry

Offline Tilt

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #57 on: March 25, 2008, 04:40:24 AM »
HTC perking policy may seem strange at times................

It would seem right that rare late war birds such as 262's, 234's, Tempest's should be perked. Indeed it would seem right that the Ta152 should be perked along with the 3 cannon La7 and the very late Spits that entered service in 45.

Some of the above were perked at their time of introduction to the MA game play.

It would also seem right that aircraft that cause arena game play to become heavily miss balanced should be made "rare" or at least carry some cost if flown totally without regard to game play. In fact game play balance seems to be the overriding reason for perking and or perk value modification.

When the chog was introduced I do not believe that HTC had any intention to perk it. The maps frequently in use at the time were such that there were many CV groups in play and these suddenly became  irresistible platforms of dominance being home to the indomitable Chog its ability to carry 2000lbs of ordinance and 4 x hispano 20mm. Hordes latched onto them as did many dominant squads and CV launched virtually nothing else whilst fields local to any coast were (it seemed) defenceless to the massed chog onslaught.

Why was it so dominant?

Typhoons carried the (nearly) the same ordinance and whilst (then) often used as field killers they did not unbalance to the degree of the chog. My belief was that it was only in combination with its ability to launch from a CV that it became such an unbalancing factor and indeed maps with less CV dependency were less effected by its presence.

Perking it solved the problem of the time. It was the first time I saw the retrospective addition of perks to directly address a game play/balance issue. (since then we have had ENY Perk biasing added.) Whether unperking it now would reproduce the problem I do not know.

Since then we have seen the unperking of the Ta152 and the perking of the Spit XIV. Both these actions were apparently with respect to game play balance as would be the initial perking of the Tiger and the latter (retrospective) perking of the Firefly.

The La7 was slow to be recognised within game as an aircraft of some merit. It suffered from being "little known" and "Soviet" in origin. It had no glamour of history about it as may be said for a P51, Spitfire or Bf109.

Its performance curves are ideally suited to MA game play and if it had longer legs, the ability to carry significant ordinance and 3 Hispanos then I doubt we would see any other type of aircraft and game play would be on the floor in terms of entertainment value.

It does not however have these other attributes and neither does it cause game play in balance. It is not the most used aircraft. Its use does not cause a disruption of game play.

It is unpopular amongst "experten" and those who would aspire to be seen as "experten". Putting aside the aside the inane rhetoric of our "aspiree experten" lets look at what our "experten" suffer at the hands of the La7......because  this is IMO pretty key to calls for its perkage................

"The Spoiler" If your SA is good it counts for nothing if a high La7 chooses you as its victim. It may or may not be the one to get the kill but it will have caused you to lose advantage such that others finish you. You are left in the certain knowledge that you have been beaten (or made vulnerable)by the lesser skilled opponent or at least by one employing far less skill than should have been required to "earn" your "pelt".

"The Chaser" If you have extracted your self from a hard fought furball only to find an La7 chasing you, you know you will have to fight again, of course this time you have little fuel and no ammo. Of course the spits behind him will probably be the ones to finish you off. You are left in the certain knowledge that you have been beaten (or made vulnerable)by the lesser skilled opponent or at least by one employing far less skill than should have been required to "earn" your "pelt".

"The Safe Option". It engages your Spit/109/P51/N1K2 Co-E, Co-alt carries out 2 -3 poorly executed air combat manoeuvres which put you in the advantage and then it simply disengages, flies away and then returns when the balance (or its advantage) is re gained. Rinse, Repeat, Rinse, Repeat etc etc. You are left in the certain knowledge that you have not been able to finish off the lesser skilled opponent or at least one employing far less skill than should have been required to escape with his "pelt" intact.

"The Noob Machine". You only have to read the above to see that any player wanting some modicum of success will be drawn to the La7. He will of course display all the characteristics of a new player. Shall we say the characteristics of a less mature player. Head ons, horde play, cherry picking, kill stealing, daisy chaining, vulching, etc etc. Its interesting to note that the consensus of some is that it is the aircraft that does this and not the player. I wonder what the outcome would be if such logic were applied to e.g. Gun law in the US. The truth is of course is that we see such individual game play characteristics from all aircraft flown by such pilots.

I have never seen an "experten" complain about an La7 that was flown well.

I have one other perverse theory regarding HTC's view of the La7. It is the ideal "badboy". To put it another way supposing we were talking about the P51? Supposing all the above attributes were to be combined with the very icon of US (HTC's core geographical market) WWII air supremacy? would then this aircraft only represent 7.5 to 10% of arena game play? In fact the P51 now has a greater slice of the arena game play than the La7 but supposing that it took 20 or even 30% of game play? It would have to be perked...and would a game where free access was denied to such an icon be as popular with new players as AH is now? Who knows....... but indeed it does suit to have this Soviet short legged low alt uber plane as the focus of disdain...............it very much fits in with a "view of the world".

I would lay bets that when ordinance perking is introduced the 3 x b20 La7 will receive its perk. As a late war variant of comparatively few in number this would seem appropriate. However if this were to cause mass migration to such aircraft as the N1K2 the resultant backlash here may be interesting.
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Offline moot

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2008, 04:47:17 AM »
Good post Tilt.
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Offline Kev367th

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Re: curious...why is LA7 not perked?
« Reply #59 on: March 25, 2008, 05:24:50 AM »
HTC perking policy may seem strange at times................

It would seem right that rare late war birds such as 262's, 234's, Tempest's should be perked. Indeed it would seem right that the Ta152 should be perked along with the 3 cannon La7 and the very late Spits that entered service in 45.

Bearing in mind there isn't a Spit in the game that entered service (or has the max boost that was available) in 1945.

ONLY Spit that entered service in 1945 was the F.21.

Max boost for the LF IX (May 1944 @25lbs), XVI (Dec 1944 @25lbs) and XIV (July 1944 @21lbs), none of which are available in game.

So if you're saying all current Spits should be free, I agree.
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