curious...why is LA7 not perked?

[SlapShot]

What ... another "perk" the La-7 thread ... too funny ... 

Looks like some just can't wrap their heads around ... "The La-7 usage DOES NOT cause an imbalance in any arena".

I can't remember the last time I ran into an La-7/5 ... 1 v 1 ... that I didn't kill in my trusty FM2 or F6F. I have been "picked" by La-5/7s (as with many other planes) but that does not speak to their "uberness" ... my SA sucked and I paid the price.

Most who piss 'n moan about the La-7 are those types that Dedalos spoke of ... In most cases it's someone in a P-50run, run-09, or a run-90 that has a basket full of vulch kills and I manage to get wheels up in an La-7 and run them down ... and when the end is near ... rather that turn and fight, they stick stir like a "land trout" and die very unceremoniously ... as expected for most who fly the late war hot-rods.

99 out of 100 double digits kill sorties in an La-7, the pilot  has "picked" a furball, vulched a field, or both and the kills are most likely attributed to people's lack of SA rather than a knock down dragged out dogfight.

I can count on 4 fingers people that I have known over the past 6+ years who could truely land double digit kill sorties in an La-7 from "just" dogfighting and the most deadly of them all does not fly anymore.

You don't like getting killed by the La-7 ... then lose your peer pressure humility and fly the La-7 in dogfight mode and learn how it fights so you can then know how to counter it when flying in a different plane. I flew it straight for 9 tours ... I laugh at most La-7 pilots and know that an easy kill is on the plate.

Screaming for it to be perked because it's fast and can run you down ... sad, very sad. No La-7 has EVER run me down ... because I turn back into them and fight them and if they decide to stick around ... they will most likely die.

Also, take an La-7 up and look for some of the better sticks (Leviathn, Dedalos, Stang, Furball, Morpheous, AKAK, Greebo, Wadke, SkyRock, Fester, BluKitty, Nomde, Delirium ...) in "their ride" and then come back here, with film, showing us all how you waxed them repeatedly and easily in an La-7.

[Ack-Ack]

LA-7s are not perked for the same reasons Trees are not perked. Trees have a much higher k/d too.

And trees always go for the HO.  Ever been killed by a tree that has saddled up on your six?  Don't think so...



ack-ack

[cbizkit]

Looks like some just can't wrap their heads around ... "The La-7 usage DOES NOT cause an imbalance in any arena".

Just to play devils advocate... if imbalance caused is the metric used then should not the Tempest and SpitXIV be free as well? I can't think of how one would make a strong argument that those two planes pose a greater potential balance threat than the LA7.

[SlapShot]

Just to play devils advocate... if imbalance caused is the metric used then should not the Tempest and SpitXIV be free as well? I can't think of how one would make a strong argument that those two planes pose a greater potential balance threat than the LA7.

Not so much the Spit XIV nowadays, but unleash the Temp and you will more than likely see an imbalance in the LW arenas ... but as far as I am concerned ... take the perks off the Tempest and Spit XIV ... I could care less ... just another target in the sky.

Actually, unleash all the perked planes ... except the 262 and 163 ... and lets see where the chips fall ... can they dominate and cause the "imbalance" that is feared ... would be an interesting experiment.

[Kweassa]

 This thread is actually a very good example of the notion of "Vet Tendencies" I've been talking about lately. Simply put, "vets" (despite the fact that they are all fine people on a personal level), are basically egomaniacs full of themselves. They just quite don't get the concept that these sorts of threads aren't about themselves.


 
"Hey.. the <latewar plane> isn't a problem at all.. because I can slap it around in my <junk plane>.."

 

 Whoop-dee-too, the Stakhanovists of Aces High.

"Hey.. I can haul 100 tons of coal by myself at a given period.. so everybody should do the same.."


 
 It's highschool all over again.

[cbizkit]

but unleash the Temp and you will more than likely see an imbalance in the LW arenas

You suggest that unperking the temp will cause an imbalance but the LA7 which is one of the top 3 used aircraft doesn't already? I'm interested in how you're arriving at that conclusion. There is very little that the Tempest does better then the LA7 from a balance perspective, which is go fast down low and shoot hard and straight. The 3 LA7 cannons aren't what I would consider a large disadvantage relative to the quad hispanos. The LA7 out climbs, out accels, out turns the Tempest and has a longer wep time so even at the Tempest's best alt it will outrun the Tempest given enough time. Essentially in a 1 up fight the Tempest had better take the head-on pass.

[SlapShot]

You suggest that unperking the temp will cause an imbalance but the LA7 which is one of the top 3 used aircraft doesn't already? I'm interested in how you're arriving at that conclusion. There is very little that the Tempest does better then the LA7 from a balance perspective, which is go fast down low and shoot hard and straight. The 3 LA7 cannons aren't what I would consider a large disadvantage relative to the quad hispanos. The LA7 out climbs, out accels, out turns the Tempest and has a longer wep time so even at the Tempest's best alt it will outrun the Tempest given enough time. Essentially in a 1 up fight the Tempest had better take the head-on pass.

  ... It was my 'opinion' ... simple as that ... I also said to go and un-perk it and the rest of them too (except 262 and 163) ... I could care less. What I don't want is planes perked simply because people get their arse handed to to them by said plane or simply because ... "it's real fast !!!"

[SlapShot]

This thread is actually a very good example of the notion of "Vet Tendencies" I've been talking about lately. Simply put, "vets" (despite the fact that they are all fine people on a personal level), are basically egomaniacs full of themselves. They just quite don't get the concept that these sorts of threads aren't about themselves.


 
"Hey.. the <latewar plane> isn't a problem at all.. because I can slap it around in my <junk plane>.."

 

 Whoop-dee-too, the Stakhanovists of Aces High.

"Hey.. I can haul 100 tons of coal by myself at a given period.. so everybody should do the same.."


 
 It's highschool all over again.

  ... same 'ole ... same 'ole

[Ack-Ack]

This thread is actually a very good example of the notion of "Vet Tendencies" I've been talking about lately. Simply put, "vets" (despite the fact that they are all fine people on a personal level), are basically egomaniacs full of themselves. They just quite don't get the concept that these sorts of threads aren't about themselves.


 
"Hey.. the <latewar plane> isn't a problem at all.. because I can slap it around in my <junk plane>.."

 

 Whoop-dee-too, the Stakhanovists of Aces High.

"Hey.. I can haul 100 tons of coal by myself at a given period.. so everybody should do the same.."


 
 It's highschool all over again.

Hmmm...to me it's more of a case where those crying about perking the La-7 have yet to produce any evidence whatsoever that the La-7 unbalances the game play.  If you have any evidence to support those crying for a perk by all means provide the proof.


ack-ack

[dedalos]

This thread is actually a very good example of the notion of "Vet Tendencies" I've been talking about lately. Simply put, "vets" (despite the fact that they are all fine people on a personal level), are basically egomaniacs full of themselves. They just quite don't get the concept that these sorts of threads aren't about themselves.


 
"Hey.. the <latewar plane> isn't a problem at all.. because I can slap it around in my <junk plane>.."

 

 Whoop-dee-too, the Stakhanovists of Aces High.

"Hey.. I can haul 100 tons of coal by myself at a given period.. so everybody should do the same.."


 
 It's highschool all over again.

you are being to hard on your self bud

[dedalos]

And trees always go for the HO.  Ever been killed by a tree that has saddled up on your six?  Don't think so...



ack-ack

Well, I had it happen.  It was more of a kill steal though since I was floating down with no tail.  Most trees are kill stealing HO dweebs if you ask me.

[Urchin]

Hmmm...to me it's more of a case where those crying about perking the La-7 have yet to produce any evidence whatsoever that the La-7 unbalances the game play.  If you have any evidence to support those crying for a perk by all means provide the proof.


ack-ack

Kweassa wasn't making the point that the La-7 imbalances the game.  He was making the point that a fair number of people think that because they can consistantly kill awful pilots in the La-7 that it somehow makes the La-7 a bad plane.  

I am still looking forward to getting together with you so you can show me how to kill an La-7 in a P-38.  I say without any ego whatsoever that I think I could take anyone in the game a majority of the time if I were in an La-7 and they were in anything other than possibly a Spit 16.  And I'm not even any good any more.  

[Ack-Ack]

Well, I had it happen.  It was more of a kill steal though since I was floating down with no tail.  Most trees are kill stealing HO dweebs if you ask me.

Trees won't back it up by going to the DA either, timid pinaceae.


ack-ack

[2bighorn]

The 3 LA7 cannons aren't what I would consider a large disadvantage relative to the quad hispanos.

Just about 40% less lethal.

The LA7 out climbs

Only at narrow alt range, Tempest still has considerable better zoom.

out accels

It doesn't.

out turns

Turn radius is better, not by much though, in turn rate, they're pretty even IIRC

the Tempest and has a longer wep time so even at the Tempest's best alt it will outrun the Tempest given enough time.

At Tempest's best alt, it will outrun LA7 even without WEP.

Essentially in a 1 up fight the Tempest had better take the head-on pass.

One of the reason why Tempest should remain perked (only few perkies tho). Every single noob would take Tempest and do nothing but HO. Very easy with 4 Hispanos.


Beside that, Tempest has twice the range (DTs) and can carry 2x1000lbs eggs.
 

[cbizkit]

Just about 40% less lethal.

I'm not sure I agree with the combat effectiveness being 40% less lethal, maybe if you unload all the cannons into a hanger to decide on how much damage they do sure. But the advantage of no convergence issues in the LA7 make up for most of the 4th cannon & ballistics advantages. In either plane if you get a hit in convergence pieces are most of the time coming off. In terms of being able to rack up scalps per sortie I'd give it to the Tempest due to the ammo load, but simple one pass kill ability is pretty close to a wash between the two IMO.

It doesn't.

My bad on that one, memory failed me there.

Turn radius is better, not by much though, in turn rate, they're pretty even IIRC

Turn radius with flaps favors the LA7 by a good bit, turn rate you're right.

At Tempest's best alt, it will outrun LA7 even without WEP.

Doh, my bad again. Should have checked before adding the 'at best alt' part.
 

One of the reason why Tempest should remain perked (only few perkies tho). Every single noob would take Tempest and do nothing but HO. Very easy with 4 Hispanos.

Beside that, Tempest has twice the range (DTs) and can carry 2x1000lbs eggs.

I can't disagree with the expectation that it would happen, because it does happen with all the other cannon birds already. My point was merely that the Tempest on paper doesn't appear to be significantly more unbalancing then the LA7 suggesting that the perk assignments as a whole appear to be a bit inconsistent if you're assuming perk assignments are based on the ability for one plane to kill another. (I'm not suggesting thats what they are based on or should be based on.) Looking more carefully from your comments they're less close then I envisioned but still close enough to appear inconsistent.