Author Topic: General Gun Discussion  (Read 15065 times)

Offline Toad

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #360 on: June 30, 2008, 05:19:49 PM »
Shucks and Jives?

Sounds like he's been very consistant.


C'mon MT. You don't really want to see a long post on how he's suddenly changed his position.

Do yourself a favor; check this out: http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

Here's a sample:

Quote
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban
Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."
Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views."


You don't see a change there? He's had a religious experience; the political gods spoke to him in a dream and told him he had no chance to win if he was anti-gun. So, he's changed his spots. Next we'll see him out duck hunting like Laz says. He'll look just as stupid as Kerry did, too.

Want another?

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Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok
Q: You said recently, "I have no intention of taking away folks' guns." But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you've said that it's constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?

A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions.

Source: 2008 Politico pre-Potomac Primary interview Feb 11, 2008



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Offline AKIron

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #361 on: June 30, 2008, 05:26:11 PM »
Next we'll see him out duck hunting like Laz says. He'll look just as stupid as Kerry did, too


I hear Dick Cheney is looking for a hunting buddy.
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Offline midnight Target

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #362 on: June 30, 2008, 05:27:56 PM »
Nothing you posted refutes what I wrote or what Obama has said in the debates or after the SC ruling.
He agrees that it is an Individual right, and that it is regulatable.



Nice try though.

Offline AKIron

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #363 on: June 30, 2008, 05:30:28 PM »
Nothing you posted refutes what I wrote or what Obama has said in the debates or after the SC ruling.
He agrees that it is an Individual right, and that it is regulatable.



Nice try though.


How can it be an individual right if you are denied the ability to exercise that right? Sounds like political doublespeak to me.
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Offline Toad

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #364 on: June 30, 2008, 05:46:27 PM »
I accept your apology.

Quote
Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."

But of course he DID and his writing was on that questionnaire in 1996 in Illinois.

His anti-gun history is available and unquestionable. He has routinely supported bans on hand guns and even all semi-automatics which, thankfully, are now unconstitutional.

Didn't sign the amicus brief on Heller either. Forget the fig leaf that somehow he didn't know about it or wasn't asked.

However, he's converted now and that will last until he wins the election when he will return to his elitist view that "So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion ".





If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline midnight Target

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #365 on: June 30, 2008, 05:51:19 PM »
Point is, he hasn't changed his stance since he began his run for POTUS, and digging up a 12 year old paper is hardly relevent. If you thought he was a flip flopper on this issue you should have said something in February when he said EXACTLY what he is saying now.

He hasn't changed his mind due to the Heller decision and that is the point of conversation now isn't it?


Offline Charon

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #366 on: June 30, 2008, 06:30:25 PM »
Quote
He hasn't changed his mind due to the Heller decision and that is the point of conversation now isn't it?

He believes that it's an individual right, but one that should have the lowest level of scrutiny so that the Govt. can regulate it out of common practice.

No CCW except for ex cops
No Handguns.
No semiautomatic rifles.
The ability to sue the gun industry out of existence for criminals that misuse their products (but not automakers or cell phone suppliers, etc.)
One gun per month
Close gun shops in Cook County
Voted against exempting from prosecution people who violate local hand gun bans in self defense cases.
Served on the board of the Joyce foundation, the driving force behind the gun control movement in the US

Long list. About as anti 2nd Amendment as you can get in a candidate. Gun control is a Democratic issue in Illinois so a lot of record on this for a change. And yet, for a guy who never met a pro gun control issue he didn’t like, who firmly believes you and I should not own handguns, he’s mighty quiet on the Heller decision.

This quote from his web site is remarkable

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Respect the Second Amendment: Millions of hunters own and use guns each year. Millions more participate in a variety of shooting sports such as sporting clays, skeet, target and trap shooting that may not necessarily involve hunting. As a former constitutional law professor, Barack Obama believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right, and he greatly respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting. He also believes that the right is subject to reasonable and commonsense regulation.

Wow, which Constitution did he teach?

How about this Individual Rights position:

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John Lott, a senior research scientist at the University of Maryland, relates this chilling encounter in an opinion piece dealing with a questionnaire Obama and/or his staff answered for the Independent Voters of Illinois (IVI):
In fact, I knew Obama during the mid-1990s, and his answers to IVI’s question on guns fit well with the Obama that I knew. Indeed, the first time I introduced myself to him he said “Oh, you are the gun guy.”
I responded “Yes, I guess so.” He simply responded that “I don’t believe that people should be able to own guns.”
When I said it might be fun to talk about the question sometime and about his support of the city of Chicago’s lawsuit against the gun makers, he simply grimaced and turned away, ending the conversation.

So yeah, Obama hasn't changed his mind since Heller. He still believes the 2nd is an individual right, undoubtedly a major mistake on the part of the framers, and a right that virtually no one should be allowed to exercise in all but the most limited manner. Unlike the rest of the BOR. Of course, like any typical politician he does not come out and tell the full story. I will give McCain credit for that, not that it will hurt him by doing so.

Charon
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 06:34:19 PM by Charon »

Offline wrongwayric

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #367 on: July 01, 2008, 07:51:19 AM »
Was waiting to see what happened to this guy in texas. I think he did the right thing IMO.

http://streator.mediacomtoday.com/community/news/story/index.php?source=National&id=D91KVCD00&pd=20080701

Now i wonder if the FEDS will step in or not?

Offline CAP1

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #368 on: July 01, 2008, 08:02:56 AM »
Was waiting to see what happened to this guy in texas. I think he did the right thing IMO.

http://streator.mediacomtoday.com/community/news/story/index.php?source=National&id=D91KVCD00&pd=20080701

Now i wonder if the FEDS will step in or not?

hopefully they'll let it rest. i really can't believe that someone is going to try to keep this going because he killed a couple criminals??
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Offline DiabloTX

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #369 on: July 01, 2008, 08:15:02 AM »
I think Joe Horn was wrong to do what he did but I support what he did.  I don't think his life was in imminent danger BUT I respect the fact that he decided not to let a couple of turds get away with committing felonies.  He even warned them multiple times not to do anything but they did anyway.  If someone has a shotgun pointed at me they will have my full attention.  These 2 turds got cocky and paid the price. 
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline lazs2

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #370 on: July 01, 2008, 08:27:10 AM »
I don't know what happened at the scene just before he shot but..  I support his right as a citizen to be armed and go to his neighbors house.

I would hold a public official to a higher standard but as an individual.. I believe that he was within his rights to go over there armed and to make a call on if he was in mortal danger or not.. a cop for instance tho.. would be held to a higher standard and I would want proof that he was in grave danger.



lazs

Offline alskahawk

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #371 on: July 01, 2008, 08:28:30 AM »
 In  another state he would have gone to trial and gotten convicted.

Offline hammer

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #372 on: July 01, 2008, 09:56:21 AM »
He's lucky. The fact that both were shot in the back (read the article) would probably have gotten him not only a trial but a conviction anywhere else.
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Offline Mojava

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #373 on: July 01, 2008, 10:16:20 AM »
 Here's the whole 8 minute police call http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7jqLie6-Y0 hearing that shotgun click will send a shiver down your spine. 

Offline Xasthur

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #374 on: July 01, 2008, 10:19:48 AM »
Whilst the scum he wasted will be no loss to society I think he is well in the wrong there.

- He went out there with the intention of killing them.

- He shot them in the back

Sure, they were breaking the law and low-life thieves deserve severe punishment but murdering them for stealing some replaceable crap from someone's house is over the top and way out of line.

Had the scumbags broken into HIS house and threatened him, sure.... fire away and aim for the head. The fact that he followed them out there and shot them in the back strikes me as being very, very wrong.

Just because this guy is an old fart he is 'scared' and gets away with two murders. If it was a young, single guy he'd be doing time. What a crock of chite.
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