How to beat the f4u ?

[GrimCH]

Great info everyone.

For us F4u pilots, let's hope this bring on more fights...tired of chasing planes all over the map, when they see a F4u1-d

[SPKmes]

When all else fails, drag him in real close and take him out with all the bits that fall off.

[Caecina]

Snip.

Hlbly and I met up in the DA for about an hour last night, and went through a number of knife fights.  What BE's saying here has a lot of merit, for any of you Spit pilots wondering the same things as Hlbly.

Basically, what I found fighting him, was when the fight generally consisted of nose to nose turns (ie, scissoring), I would be able to keep the advantage, but when it all of a sudden went nose to tail turns (chasing each other around), yeah, I could keep up with him for awhile, but that acceleration and climb would make me try to look for an angle where I could break off and go back into a nose-nose turn, rather than look for an angle where I could get a guns solution on him. 

Of course, attempting to revert into a nose-nose situation is very problematic.  On the first cross you're basically handing him a great shot, and you don't have a whole heck of a lot of E to work with to deny it.  Very hairy situation (he certainly lit me up on one of them).

I don't know.  Certainly a fun fight and one that can last awhile.  One worth attempting, in my book

Saxman, if you see hlbly online, get him into the DA.  I think it's fair to say you and I have different styles of flying.  Both get results and both are ones he's going to want to practice against.  Personally, I'm the sort of guy who just loves being in trouble, so I tend to try and beat people at their own game.  You seem to take a much brighter approach

(For that matter, get me in there too.  I'd be interested in getting a schooling myself).

[Saxman]

Do you ever get tired of describing how you're the best F4U stick on the planet?

The guy asks how to beat the Hog and all you do is keep bragging about how good you are.   

You want to clue me in on where you came up with that accusation? This is TWICE now in this thread you've put words in my mouth. 

It's all well and good to tell him "Bleed the Hog of E." But saying is one thing, and doing it is another if he comes up against someone like MtnMan or TequilaChaser who aren't likely to get pulled into a low and slow knife-fight vs a Spit.

And I've learned as much, if not MORE, from someone describing or showing what they did when FLYING a plane as I did being told how to FIGHT it.

Caecina and hlbly,

I don't fly in the DA much, but pop in periodically when I need a break from the Mains. I haven't been flying much lately in general outside FSO and squad activities, but have been trying to work some more stick time in. I don't consider myself much of a trainer tho, but if you want let me know when you'll be in there (I'm in CST). Tequila Chaser and MtnMan would be better choices to look up in that regard. TC is in the training corps, and while I've only fought him once I think he advocates more of the E-fighting style in the F4U (at least that's how our fight broke down). MtnMan I believe also generally prefers open/E-fighting in the F4Us.

[BaldEagl]

snip

Please, tell me where, in your lengthy diatribes, you've answered the original question; how to beat an F4U with a Spit XVI other than your sugggestion to pick one that's already engaged in a low turn fight.

The thread wasn't called "How do you fly and fight in an F4U", which is all you've added to the thread.  It was called "How to beat the F4U?"

To every response, your gone to great lengths to make a case that YOU can beat the responder.  How is it then, that I've got (most likely) a 5:1 K/D rate against F4U's in Spit XVI's?  I've fought TC and beat him three times in one night although one was a pick so we won't count that.  One of those he was in a Hog, the other he was in a Typhoon.

Maybe your so afraid to fight that you want to scare anyone from engaging you in your beloved Hog?  Maybe you want everyone to fly the F4U?  Then HT can change the name of the game to F4U's High and lose 90% of his subcribers.  It sounds like your style is to come in with an alt/E advantage and pick low cons.  No problem if that's how you get your $15 worth but at least be honest about it.

I have nothing against you saxman.  You're a great resource in how to fly and fight in the F4U but please, try to stay on topic, especially in the Help and Training forum.  It's bad enough in the MA's without trying to scare everyone from engaging a specific aircraft and instead running, especially when the F4U is, for the most part, an easy kill.

[moot]

FWIW describing the F4Us like he does isn't without value to answering the OP.

[GrimCH]

Looks like Saxman covered the do's and dont's and explained it's weakness compared to certain planes. It should be helpful to all, whether you are in the F4u or flying against it.

[hlbly]

Thanks for all the input guys . If a person thinks the only place to learn is in TA or DA they are missing some very vital information . If any of you see me online lemme know if ya want to go do a lil practical application . I take a beating cheerfully and happily use what I just learned on the next guy



                                   <S>

[hlbly]

Wanna beat an F4U?   Just get on my six!   

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm when ?

[Vantec]

For me this thread has given me tons of info and insight to the mind of a F4U, question tho BaldEagl is the spit your primary plane you fly in? id also be interested in a beat down to learn from that experience and be dishing out the pain instead of receiving it 

[BaldEagl]

For me this thread has given me tons of info and insight to the mind of a F4U, question tho BaldEagl is the spit your primary plane you fly in? id also be interested in a beat down to learn from that experience and be dishing out the pain instead of receiving it 

I fly four primaries; Spit XVI, F6F-5, BF109K-4, and FW190A-8 but the Spit edges the others out consistantly.  Beyond that I try to get time in every other plane in the set at least every 3-6 months.

[TequilaChaser]

Please, tell me where, in your lengthy diatribes, you've answered the original question; how to beat an F4U with a Spit XVI other than your sugggestion to pick one that's already engaged in a low turn fight.

The thread wasn't called "How do you fly and fight in an F4U", which is all you've added to the thread.  It was called "How to beat the F4U?"

To every response, your gone to great lengths to make a case that YOU can beat the responder.  How is it then, that I've got (most likely) a 5:1 K/D rate against F4U's in Spit XVI's?  I've fought TC and beat him three times in one night although one was a pick so we won't count that.  One of those he was in a Hog, the other he was in a Typhoon.

Maybe your so afraid to fight that you want to scare anyone from engaging you in your beloved Hog?  Maybe you want everyone to fly the F4U?  Then HT can change the name of the game to F4U's High and lose 90% of his subcribers.  It sounds like your style is to come in with an alt/E advantage and pick low cons.  No problem if that's how you get your $15 worth but at least be honest about it.

I have nothing against you saxman.  You're a great resource in how to fly and fight in the F4U but please, try to stay on topic, especially in the Help and Training forum.  It's bad enough in the MA's without trying to scare everyone from engaging a specific aircraft and instead running, especially when the F4U is, for the most part, an easy kill.

I was not going to post to this thread until I saw this,  BaldEagl, I praised and saluted you for the fun fights, although I knew going into it the following: "YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO TURN FIGHT TYPHOONS AGAINST SPITFIRES"........ as for the killing me three times WTG, awesome <golf Clap>.......now to put it in a more meaningful context, I will be glad to meet you in the DA at anytime you like and fly against you in a 1 vs 1 environment, so you can come back and say you beat me THREE times.......the film of that night when you got those 3 kills, was always multiple enemy vs Me..the 1st one was you in your spitfire and an La7, the second involved 2 or 3 spitfires,  1 P51, 1 c205 and 1 La7..........the one you got me where I was in a Hog, was also multiple enemy vs me..........so I really do not understand how you posting the above has any value to what you are claiming, Sir...... in all seriousness, the post I have quoted you on above has no place in the Training and help forum..........

Now, as to the original poster's question, here are a few things to think about or do (some of them have already been posted before by others, and Saxman has given some good info also )

hmm.how to beat an F4U with any type spitfire?

1st off, as Saxman  and maybe others have mentioned, you will want to quickly pick up on / recognize your F4U opponent's E(energy) state, you can tell this by how fast his closure rate is ( closure rate is the counter on him dropping ). If his counter seems kind of slow but is dropping turn into his direction and get a read on it, chances are he is shadowing you until he is with in striking distance, so you do not have a lot of time to react. Also, scan around and make sure their are no other threats close by ( you don't want to get picked  )

2nd -, stay in the spitfire's  best flight envelope perferably between right at best instantaneous turn speed/rate and it's best sustained turn speed/rate........next when you go to turn, if you get the angles advantage first, then turn to the right, or try and force him to turn right!
The F4U has a bit of trouble maintaining a good turn to the right with out throttle management. This will give you and edge to try and bleed his E.........

3rd - Try and recognize the skill level of your F4U opponent , if you pick up on him being a better skilled Stick, then just give it all you got, ( I should have posted this 1st - FILM ALL FIGHTS, and try and look for what you did wrong, if you can not figure it out post your films here, so others can figure it out for you )

4th - PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

5th - as Ren always said "Train Like You Fight! - Fight Like You Train! "

I have other  thoughts and opinions, but have a mental / typing words block at the moment

~S~

edit: hlbly, are you the original hlbly  from Air Warrior?

[Tr1gg22]

This has been a great thread until baldeagle started attacking certain peeps...The information that sax was giving imo was very insightful..Ty sax    Other than that Baldy It sounds like sax has u intimidated for some reason..There will always be terds that ruin things that are going in the right direction...Some low self esteem people always have to jump in and put there unappreciated garbage into the mix..

[hlbly]

edit: hlbly, are you the original hlbly  from Air Warrior?

Yup its me TC good to see you bro . would love to do a lil training with you . I have been back 5 weeks after about 6 year layoff . although I tried to fly about 4 years ago . had a few challenges but i am rdy to go now .

[TequilaChaser]

Yup its me TC good to see you bro . would love to do a lil training with you . I have been back 5 weeks after about 6 year layoff . although I tried to fly about 4 years ago . had a few challenges but i am rdy to go now .

Good to see an old friend show back up, will try and catch ya online hlbly........and help ya if I can  ~SALUTE~