Adjustment to Scoring (idea)

[Zazen13]

No, when someone is strafing the town there are usually plenty of people capping the field, score potatos or not. So you are still going to get vulched, right?

Right. But if you read my play by play, compare and contrast, before and after, breakdown at the beginning part of this thread. It's not this simple. You're looking at one particular phase of the base taking process in non-fluid isolation. That would be like wanting to teach your child what a pet dog is like, but instead of buying her a puppy you bring home a dead dog from the side of the road. When you look at just that one phase, in hermetic isolation, of a dynamic and fluid process, you kill it, it becomes a non-living artifact.

In case you don't have the patience to go back and read my breakdown, I will sum up the important part for you...

-More defenders will be there initially during the early phases of the attack.
-The defenders will be able to more realistically get up after being shot down in the early phases before really tight CAP is in place.
-While the local reactionary defense performs this stalling action and the CAP tightens, other defenders now have time to come from a proximate field to assist.
-When the supporting forces arrive the tight CAP will loosen and the reactionary defenders will have some room to breathe perpetuating the fight at least a bit longer.

[Steve]

Right. But if you read my play by play, compare and contrast, before and after, breakdown at the beginning part of this thread. It's not this simple. You're looking at one particular phase of the base taking process in non-fluid isolation. That would be like wanting to teach your child what a pet dog is like, but instead of buying her a puppy you bring home a dead dog from the side of the road. When you look at just that one phase, in hermetic isolation, of a dynamic and fluid process you kill it, it becomes an artifact.

In case you don't have the patience to go back and read my breakdown, I will sum up the important part for you...

-More defenders will be there initially during the early phases of the attack.
-The defenders will be able to more realistically get up after being shot down in the early phases before really tight CAP is in place.
-While the local reactionary defense performs this stalling action and the CAP tightens, other defenders now have time to come from a proximate field to assist.
-When the supporting forces arrive the tight CAP will loosen and the reactionary defenders will have some room to breathe perpetuating the fight at least a bit longer.

So am I to be clear that you are supporting the idea because you want bases to be harder to take?  If that's incorrect, please tell me why you support it.

[Zazen13]

So am I to be clear that you are supporting the idea because you want bases to be harder to take?  If that's incorrect, please tell me why you support it.

Like I said, anything is harder than base takers playing by themselves against vacant fields. So, if by creating some kind of actual fight for them, not a pure vulch-o-rama, is making it harder, then yes of course it is. It couldn't possibly be any easier than it already is, especially on the HUGE maps.

[Steve]

Like I said, anything is harder than base takers playing by themselves against vacant fields. So, if by creating some kind of actual fight for them, not a pure vulch-o-rama, is making it harder, then yes of course it is. It couldn't possibly be any easier than it already is, especially on the HUGE maps.

Is one team being regularly run over by these base takers?  Are they somehow ruining the play for other players? I fail to see any logic behind your support, educate me.  Why do you care if people take vacant fields?

[Zazen13]

Is one team being regularly run over by these base takers?  Are they somehow ruining the play for other players? I fail to see any logic behind your support, educate me.  Why do you care if people take vacant fields?

I call it the milk-horde merry-go-round. One enormous horde is milking one vacant area for one team, while the other is doing the same thing elsewhere for the other team. If they ever happen to accidentally meet they pack up shop and find a vacant field elsewhere to milk-horde. So, this isn't like the scenario that precipitated the ENY limiter, with relative country numerical disparity, that's pretty easily fixed. This is a more pervasive problem of so much focus being placed on one aspect of the game, it has perverted it into something that is far easier and less interactive, in terms of conflict, than it was ever intended to be. This has deleteriously impacted the gameplay experience in terms of the prevalence of actual air combat frequency, quality and duration. This whole problem is exacerbated by the HUGE maps. It's not as big of a problem on the traditional smalls maps because it's almost impossible to take fields without actually fighting for them unless it's 3am or the country numbers are badly skewed.

[Murdr]

I just thought I'd repost a couple things saantana said that I agree with, via the "score nannying" angle.  Everyone claims they don't care about score and gos right back to complaining how someone else gets their score and attaches seedy motivations to it.

It sounds to me like the supporters of this idea are score potatoes themselves. Just of a different breed. Sounds to me like they are good at 1:1 engagements, and want that underlined further by introducing the changes they have described, at the same time shunning those who prefer the other style of gameplay. Why do they care if I'm rewarded for the vulch, if the other guy died anyway? If I'm not going to get rewarded, I'm still going to do it. OR, I will play with a stop clock with in my left hand and everytime someone spawns, start it and wait the 30 seconds until I kill him. I will do that just to show how useless this new feature is. You are still going to die, and if I want, I will get my kill for it.

But again, why do you care? If you prefer 1:1 , come in co e from a different field and show me how its done. After all, I waited those couple of minutes to get to my E state, and took my time to fly over to your field. Why shouldn't you?

I'm still not 100% sure why you would care how someone got their score?

[Ack-Ack]

Because vulching, imo, is a cheap way to get it, take down the ack, call 'vulchfest at a22' and you got 1/2 of 'em there takin out anyone that tries to get up, it's taking out defenceless targets...

It's like shootin fish in a barrel...only worse :]

If you don't want to be vulched do not up from a base with an active enemy CAP hovering over the field.  That is simply the best solution to avoid being vulched.  If you want to stop the vulching, up from a nearby field, grab some alt and break the enemy CAP.  Another simple solution to the problem.


ack-ack

[Steve]

. This has deleteriously impacted the gameplay experience in terms of the prevalence of actual air combat frequency, quality and duration.

No it hasn't.  Unless it's very late at night, there are plenty of fights to be had, therefore your argument has become moot.

 I  average a very pedestrian but nonetheless satisfying kill/time of about 9 per hour. I, like most of the arena have no trouble finding fights. I don't recall many complaints recently about a dearth of fights.  Where's the community uproar that there aren't any fights? I suspect you aren't being honest about what your motivation is.

Shall we move on?

[Zazen13]

If you don't want to be vulched do not up from a base with an active enemy CAP hovering over the field.  That is simply the best solution to avoid being vulched.  If you want to stop the vulching, up from a nearby field, grab some alt and break the enemy CAP.  Another simple solution to the problem.


ack-ack

When 30 milk-horders attack a previously vacant field there is almost never enough time to send support from a field a sector away before capture is affected. That's 95% of the point of this. By making short-notice reactionary defense more feasible you buy time for defenders from a proximate field to assist. This will create more, "fight for the base in the middle", situations that we used to have a lot and almost never do anymore.

[Steve]

When 30 milk-horders attack a previously vacant field there is almost never enough time to send support from a field a sector away before capture is affected. That's 95% of the point of this, by making short-notice reactionary defense more feasible you buy time for defenders from a proximate field to assist. This will create more, "fight for the base in the middle", situations that we used to have a lot and almost never do anymore.

So you want to dictate how these milk-horders play.  I see.  I'm completely against any further restrictions/ rules that funnel gameplay in a particular manner.

[crockett]

If you don't want to be vulched do not up from a base with an active enemy CAP hovering over the field.  That is simply the best solution to avoid being vulched.  If you want to stop the vulching, up from a nearby field, grab some alt and break the enemy CAP.  Another simple solution to the problem.


ack-ack

Ack I'm quite sure you have never been vulched.. I mean the vulchers would have to fly 3 sectors deep into enemy territory in hope of catching you before you hit 20k. This topic has more impact on the guys that fly below the cloud layers.  

[Murdr]

If you don't want to be vulched do not up from a base with an active enemy CAP hovering over the field.  That is simply the best solution to avoid being vulched.  If you want to stop the vulching, up from a nearby field, grab some alt and break the enemy CAP.  Another simple solution to the problem.


ack-ack

AKAK, appearently that has no bearing if you're preoccupied with how everyone else is getting their score.  

[Zazen13]

No it hasn't.  Unless it's very late at night, there are plenty of fights to be had, therefore your argument has become moot.

 I  average a very pedestrian but nonetheless satisfying kill/time of about 9 per hour. I, like most of the arena have no trouble finding fights. I don't recall many complaints recently about a dearth of fights.  Where's the community uproar that there aren't any fights? I suspect you aren't being honest about what your motivation is.

Shall we move on?

I'm not sure what you're insinuating about me personally. But, your perspective of what the MA is like nowadays is very different than mine. If you are being honest in this thread, and not just playing devil's advocate, then you honestly don't think there's more rampant milk-hording going on and less actual fun furballs than we used to have...I'm not sure what map you're looking at but it isn't the same one we are...

[saantana]

So you want to dictate how these milk-horders play.  I see.  I'm completely against any further restrictions/ rules that funnel gameplay in a particular manner.

I thought I'd never say this Steve.. but I agree with you  for once.. hey theres always the first time 

Ack I'm quite sure you have never been vulched.. I mean the vulchers would have to fly 3 sectors deep into enemy territory in hope of catching you before you hit 20k..

I'm sure theres no need for this kind of personal 'alt monkey' comment.

I just thought I'd repost a couple things saantana said that I agree with, via the "score nannying" angle.  Everyone claims they don't care about score and gos right back to complaining how someone else gets their score and attaches seedy motivations to it.

Thank you Murdr, I was giving up hope on this thread when I was called an idiot by Agent360 

[Zazen13]

So you want to dictate how these milk-horders play.  I see.  I'm completely against any further restrictions/ rules that funnel gameplay in a particular manner.

Umm no. HTC has said over and over, they never meant for any playstyle to be employed in such an extreme way that it actually discourages or seeks to avoid actual air combat altogether. The entire premise of milk-hording vacant fields is predicated upon that very concept. This is in direct opposition to the overall design and gameplay concepts of the makers.