Hiding the Lockheed plant during WWII

[Rich46yo]

If they could manage to get ONE bomb hit on that plant, the impact on production would have been incredible. And Lockheed was strictly forbidden to shut down the P-38 lines for ANY reason.

You cant be serious.

[Serenity]

http://www.angelfire.com/bc/sanfranartillery/
http://www.angelfire.com/bc/sanfranartillery/Mendel1.html


We called them "pop up cannons".


I think the united states had the right stuff and did everything they needed to do to keep our country safe.
Cants see it happening this day and age tho. (least not without another sucker punch)

We still have two of the emplacements (sans guns) dug into Diamond Head you can walk through, and two emplacements with guns by Fort DeRusy (SP?) in Waikiki.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

You cant be serious.

Really? I'm deadly serious.

[Rich46yo]

Really? I'm deadly serious.

You think one bomb would have an incredable effect on airplane production? We sent thousands of heavy bombers against German aircraft industries and their production actually went up. And you think one bomb would affect P-38 production at Lockheed?

Please? Explain your opinion.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

There were only two lines producing P-38's, they were right next to each other. One bomb in the right place would have wrecked all sorts of stuff. You're talking about the most complex and difficult to manufacture prop fighter of the war. EVERY assembly had to be done on special jigs and fixtures. EVERY operation where two assemblies were joined had to be done on special jigs and fixtures. There were VERY FEW spares for those jigs and fixtures. That's why the P-38 was never adequately second sourced, there was barely enough tooling, jigs, and fixtures at Lockheed. And that is why the War Production Board denied Lockheed shut down time of any significant length.

The Germans second sourced all sorts of stuff. As strategic bombing reach further into Germany and did so more often, the Germans actually moved production of parts and assemblies into smaller shops in areas less likely to be bombed.

See the difference? ONE source, with only two production lines, right next to each other, on a more complex aircraft, all in one location, compared to multiple sources in various locations, building the parts for a far less complex aircraft.

[Chalenge]

Agreed 100% In the case of the P38 production yes one bomb 'could' put production months behind schedule. The P38 was (bar none) the hardest aircraft of the war to construct and early on the bombing destruction of a single jig would have made it impossible to proceed until that jig was replaced.

[Rich46yo]

I understand what your saying. For that matter "one bomb" could have caused all kinds of havoc if it landed on FDRs bathroom while he was taking a crap.

But wartime America turned itself into an industrial giant like the world had never seen. Certainly we would have had recovered from the one bomb dropped on Lockheed.

Anyway thanks for the slice of history I was strangly remiss of. I knew it was only produced at one plant but wasnt aware its parts werent outsourced like that. Without question it was a high value target and worth the cost of the camo netting. Thanks for the replys.

[Serenity]

But wartime America turned itself into an industrial giant like the world had never seen. Certainly we would have had recovered from the one bomb dropped on Lockheed.

Thats questionable. Wartime America is abso-freaking-lutely fantastic at producing a LOT of some REALLY fast. But that something is usually simple. However the complexity of repairing and replacing these jigs would take more time than could be spared.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

I understand what your saying. For that matter "one bomb" could have caused all kinds of havoc if it landed on FDRs bathroom while he was taking a crap.

But wartime America turned itself into an industrial giant like the world had never seen. Certainly we would have had recovered from the one bomb dropped on Lockheed.

Anyway thanks for the slice of history I was strangly remiss of. I knew it was only produced at one plant but wasnt aware its parts werent outsourced like that. Without question it was a high value target and worth the cost of the camo netting. Thanks for the replys.

The P-38 was eventually second sourced, to Consolidated Vultee in Nashville Tennessee, near my home. I had relatives who worked there. This was a plant that belonged to a major aircraft company, in the middle of a huge aircraft manufacturing complex (military aircraft parts are still built here, a lot of them). It took them two years or more to make,

 


wait for it,











a grand total of 113 P-38 Lightning fighters.


So, yes, a single bomb hit on the P-38 production line could have been HUGE. The War Production Board would not let Lockheed stop production for two weeks in order to change over to the P-38K (a DRAMATIC improvement over the P-38J and P-38L)  in 1943. Imagine a shut down long enough to rebuild a section of production line, train new employees if any were injured or killed, and replace even 10% of the jigs and fixtures.

[Schlowy]

USA was producing bombers and fiters every few secs.

A jig is only a piece of plywood with a shape cut into it, duh? All ya had to do was get another piece of plywood.

[Serenity]

USA was producing bombers and fiters every few secs.

A jig is only a piece of plywood with a shape cut into it, duh? All ya had to do was get another piece of plywood.

Um... no. Not so simple. Because its not only one section that needs to be remade. A 100lb bomb could easily scatter a huge chunk of un-armored, very delicate machinery ALL of which would need to be replaced.

[Murdr]

Gosh, this is a tough one.  To give credence the engine builder, and P-38 enthusiest/historian...Or the formerly banned, and soon to be banned again clueless troll.

[Schlowy]

A hand saw and a piece of plywood is all thats required to make a new jig.

This is sooo funny. I know for fact neither of you '1 bomb' fewls are in a position of management. I can imagine you guys at a stockholder meeting... "uh, a tree in the parking lot was hit by lightning so we missed the production goals by 99 pecent. instead of 100 p38s we built 1.

Let me quote Donald Trump...
"YOU'RE FIRED!!!"

LOLOL

[Angus]

Since bombing the crap out of Germany still left Germany with quite some production numbers, I tend to think that the task would have been difficult with the USA...

[Chalenge]

Gosh, this is a tough one.  To give credence the engine builder, and P-38 enthusiest/historian...Or the formerly banned, and soon to be banned again clueless troll.

I can make no sense of this what so ever? Was something edited that I missed?