JSF "clubbed like baby seals"

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Which one Virg?

How about the one you linked for this thread? Is it not obvious I'd be talking about the article you linked?

[Elfie]

F22 Raptor is the answer in the fighter role.

I don't think anyone is going to get the Raptor. It's to bad in a way really because if we sold them to a few select countries that would reduce the per unit cost for us and we could afford more of them.

[SD67]

How about the one you linked for this thread? Is it not obvious I'd be talking about the article you linked?

Yes. Fair enough.
I was wondering if you'd also read the other article posted by mg1942?
It may come as a surprise to you in the US but our press media, unlike our TV media, is surprisingly balanced. Yeah there are your basic political affiliations but largely they tend to report pretty fairly.
It was simply reporting on the results of the simulation exercise. From other material I've seen I'm not at all surprised to find the F35 completely outclassed by the Russian jets.
Can any of you seriously agree with these statements?

Senator Minchin said he had a classified briefing on the JSF from its US manufacturer Lockheed-Martin which had promoted the aircraft as the most advanced jet fighter ever.

"I can't really say much about it, but this is a phenomenal aircraft.

"As our chief of defence Angus Houston has said this is a most extraordinary aircraft, it is the right aircraft for Australia."

The multi-purpose fighter would be the backbone of the United States military, Senator Minchin said.

"We are fortunate to be in it and the government should move to make the decision to acquire it."

Would YOU in the USA consider this aircraft the backbone of the United States military?

[scot12b]

Ya I believe that  article  LMFO. We Already have a company in the Us that makes Mig`s and Su-35BM it called Mattel

[Hornet33]

When it goes into final production, yes it will be. The Air Force, Marines, and Navy will all be flying a variant of this aircraft in large numbers. In fact for the Marines it will be the ONLY fighter aircraft they will have, as the plan, the last I heard, was for the Marines to transfer their F-18's to the Navy, and completely retire the AV-8B from service.

The Navy will replace most of the early model F-18's with the JSF, keeping the Super Hornets.

The Air Force is planning on replacing all active duty F-16's with the JSF and transferring most of those older aircraft to the Reserves and Air National Guard.

Yeah this plane will be a MAJOR part of our combined air fleet.

[bongaroo]

Oh please.
It does not matter if you have the radar cross section of a freakin' GNAT. If it's a gnat doing mach2 it's going to get shot at.
FYI the RAN is not the RAAF. If the RAN want the F35 then let them apply for it themselves. The F35 is quite simply NOT the right aircraft for the RAAF. It's been pushed for purely political reasons.The average American probably wouldn't and that's actually a good thing. . It's the political fallout that would scare them away from buying the Russian birds.

A gnat doing mach 2 would be hard to hit.   

[SD67]

Fair enough Hornet Thank you for the frank reply.
Will these be used in a strictly homeland defence role or will they be used in international theatres too?
The effective range and redundancy level of the aircraft are probably the two biggest problems this aircraft has for use here. Australia is a pretty big place when you take the distances between suitable landing areas into account. We are also likely to be mixing it up with the very aircraft which according to the reports soundly whipped the F35 in combat simulations.
Since we'd probably also be at a numerical disadvantage we would really like to be in an aircraft we could have confidence in. Currently that is NOT the F35.

[Hornet33]

Well it really depends on what version the RAAF purchases. The Air Force version has the longest range, but it does require a prepared airfield to operate out of. The Navy version is the middle of the road for the aircraft. Shorter range, but heavy duty landing gear and hook for carrier operations, as well as a larger wing for better low speed handling i.e. carrier aproaches, so it could operate from rough fields. The Marine version has the shortest range, but it is a true VTOL/STOL aircraft with Mach 1+ speed so it can pretty much operate from anywhere.

All of them have the same basic avionics, and fire control systems, as well as weapons loads. Almost 75% of the airframes components are identical between the 3 models so from a logistics standpoint alone that makes it very cost effective in regards to training, procurment, and maintaining the aircraft. Performace on average will be on par if not slightly better than the newest models of the F-16 Falcon, which is regarded by most people around the world as one of the finest light fighter/attack aircraft ever built. That's why so many different countries fly the Falcon.

With the JSF (regardless of model purchased) you get all/more of the capabilities/performance of an F-16 with the added capabilities/benfits of stealth, super cruise, advanced targeting and fire control, lower overall cost. Figure 2-3 F-35's for the cost of 1 F-22

I wouldn't read too much into that "test". It was a computer simulation. How many sims have you played with were the flight models have been screwed up?

I also can't see the US Military getting this plane and keeping it here in the states. It will be deployed worldwide, just like the F-16, F-18, AV-8B's have been. The F-35 was designed to be a direct replacement for all three of those aircraft with better capabilities. The RAAF flies the F-18 right?

[FrodeMk3]

I also can't see the US Military getting this plane and keeping it here in the states. It will be deployed worldwide, just like the F-16, F-18, AV-8B's have been. The F-35 was designed to be a direct replacement for all three of those aircraft with better capabilities. The RAAF flies the F-18 right?

Hopefully, because we need the volume sales to help offset the per-unit cost.

[Yeager]

I have always viewed the JSF as a fancy piece of junk.

do you have any credentials beyond computer games to qualify your views?

[john9001]

i played that sim, the Sukhoi is over modeled.

[JAGED]

Don't club baby Seals!   

[FrodeMk3]

i played that sim, the Sukhoi is over modeled.

You would think that the simulation they used would be some kind of Million-dollar purpose-built program...But it would be hillarious if they just used some junk off-the-shelf video game. 

[mg1942]

If RAAF gets the F-35, avoid VISUAL RANGE and DOGFIGHT at all costs.

[DREDIOCK]

From what I understand it was US pilots flying the F35 in the simulations, the RAAF personnel were there to observe.
I have always viewed the JSF as a fancy piece of junk. It's too much of a compromise, as if it's been cobbled together to try to fit into too many roles.
It's simply the wrong plane for Australia, if we end up flying this here we will regret it and soon.
I cannot see the powers that be purchasing Sukhois. They would be an awesome platform and well suited to use here, but politically it would be a "brave" move. For the most part politicians are not brave people.

Could be they let themselves get beat so as to give the ruskies a false sense of security and so as to not let our past and probable future enemy again know its full capabilities.

WAIT!
This is the US government we're talking about.
They wouldnt do that.
That would make too much sense LOL