Spitfire wing tips

[Kev367th]

I don't think anyone claimed it was done sortie to sortie?

RTHolmes - Just to further confuse, despite what all the books and kit manufacturers would have tou believe there was never a Spit IXc, either LF, F oir HF. The c designation was dropped from the IX onwards. It was just a plain Spit IX, unless you read pilots logbooks.......

They often refer to the Merlin 66 IX as the IX B, and the Merlin 61 IX as the IX A.

[B3YT]

A "few minutes" is all that is needed to get ords, ammo, and fuel onto an aircraft in WII.  There is a reason ground crews didnt mess with "to have or not to have" wing tips, #1 they couldnt do it and #2 it was model specific from the factory.

Again... one isnt "painting" their aircraft prior to takeoff as they would having the ground crews load up the bombs, fuel, ammo, etc, they're choosing which unit to be in.  It is a completely different thing, 'tis you who has the flaw in the arguement, not I.  My reference regarding the FPS is the "flash-bang" approach some what to take towards this game.  I dont think we should be able to alter the mechanical make up of aircraft as you are suggesting, it didnt happen in WWII that is for sure. 

Having clight crews bolt on or unbolt the wing tips is not something the pilot could do.  It is no different then having an armorer swap out a 20in barrel for a 14/5in barrel on an M16 just before a soldier goes into a building to clear it out.  It doesnt fit this sim-game, maybe in some FPS, but not here.  Pick the plane you want as it is.  Each plane has a role (or multi-roles).  Sorry, but you cant put the tips back on your Spit16 for XYZ reason, guess you'll have to take the Spit8,9, or 14.   In case you have not noticed, HTC isnt about to perk some loadout and not others on a plane... they either perk or dont perk an entire plane.  So your option of partial perkin' isnt even a possibility.

I'm not sure what you're tollin' for... *shrugs*

interestingly my grand farther (who was on hurricanes) was one of 6 crew that worked on one plane. Turn round time was approx 20-25 mins . That would also include changing the convergence of some or all the guns. (not an easy job but done if the pilot asked) . wind repairs and damage could be repaired fairly quickly . Ergo changing of a wingtip would be very easy for ground crew as it did not effect major control cables or surfaces and were only caps not major structural  parts. You may find that Brit birds were far easier to work on than the US counterparts. (my grand farther also had the "miss fortune" as he put it of working on early P51's) .

[Jabberwock]

interestingly my grand farther (who was on hurricanes) was one of 6 crew that worked on one plane. Turn round time was approx 20-25 mins . That would also include changing the convergence of some or all the guns. (not an easy job but done if the pilot asked) . wind repairs and damage could be repaired fairly quickly . Ergo changing of a wingtip would be very easy for ground crew as it did not effect major control cables or surfaces and were only caps not major structural  parts. You may find that Brit birds were far easier to work on than the US counterparts. (my grand farther also had the "miss fortune" as he put it of working on early P51's) .

Very interesting.

Generally speaking, I had always recieved the impression that British aircraft (and tanks) were harder to work on maintenance wise than their US counterparts, as they had been designed with less of an eye to serviceability than US birds.

While a comparison not strictly be 'apples-to-apples' it would be revealing if there were any comparative statistics on how long it took to service particular fighters in the RAF and USAAF. I know there are some fairly detailed breakdowns of USAAF statistics on aircraft maintenance. I wonder if there is anything at the PRO or Imperial War Museum doing likewise for British fighters.

I could imagine that the simply and ruggedly designed Hurricane was probably less maintenance intensive than the more advanced Spitfires, P-40s and P-39s of the period, not to mention the heavy and very complex P-38, with two engines and two turbosuperchargers. Eight .303s would of been something of a pain for the armourers though.

I wonder if there is anything in Morgan and Shacklady...

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

What i find funny is the fact people use the field mods to keep other planes from being enhanced or even talked about.

Right right, keep pushing your agenda, NO FIELD MODS.

Just because it had the ability from the factory and was changed in the field, does not mean it should be added here. Dont open that door, or it will apply to every single other A/C in this game, and your beloved cliped wing spits might not be worth it.

 

"For whatever its worth, Throws his two cents"

[Karnak]

I agree that it should not be added.

My arguments are just about history and what did happen.  I do not think it is appropriate to AH.  You want clipped wings, take a Mk XVI.  You want standard wings, take a Mk VIII, Mk IX or Mk XIV.

[SmokinLoon]

I didn't say it was done like ord.  Many people here have described how it was done. You keep saying only at the factories when build despite having been told otherwise by people who know better.  Thus you are lying to make a point, I chose the word carefully.

Look up the definition.  It is a deliberate communication of misinformaiton.  Your choice of wording is wrong.   

Let me say for the last time... the clipped wings happened at the factory or when the unit swapped roles.  Not sortie to sortie and some want to have happen in AH2.   

[Kev367th]

Look up the definition.  It is a deliberate communication of misinformaiton.  Your choice of wording is wrong.   

Let me say for the last time... the clipped wings happened at the factory or when the unit swapped roles.  Not sortie to sortie and some want to have happen in AH2.   

Sorry but that is the most assinine argument yet.

By that argument then you shouldn't be able to fly a Spit one sortie, a Pony the next, then a Buff, then maybe jump into a tank, as that didn't happen either.....in real life.

You can also if you like change skins EACH sortie, geez I bet that happened all the time.......in real life.

[RTHolmes]

Although not designated LF - The XVI is fitted with the low alt Merlin 266, and the VIII with the low alt Merlin 66.
Bear in mind the Merlin 266 was just an American built Merlin 66, so the XVI could also be designated as an LF IXe.

The V, IX and XIV are F versions.

aha thanks interesting, people often recommend the XIV as a high alt spit ingame but the speed/climb data looked more like the F version to me. since only a very small % of fights occur 20-30k in AH maybe there isnt a real need for a HF spit. then again, if there was a HF version I'd be more likely to look for fights up there

if the VIII is the LF version, should it have clipped wingtips to match? (as standard, not a hangar option.) plenty of references to clipped VIIIs around but no numbers I can find and photos tend to be standard tips (although I think this is perhaps because the clipped/extended just dont look as elegant as the standard tips.) VIII with much improved rollrate *drool*.

over-modelled Spit16.

this is new to me, any evidence?

[Kev367th]

aha thanks interesting, people often recommend the XIV as a high alt spit ingame but the speed/climb data looked more like the F version to me. since only a very small % of fights occur 20-30k in AH maybe there isnt a real need for a HF spit. then again, if there was a HF version I'd be more likely to look for fights up there

if the VIII is the LF version, should it have clipped wingtips to match? (as standard, not a hangar option.) plenty of references to clipped VIIIs around but no numbers I can find and photos tend to be standard tips (although I think this is perhaps because the clipped/extended just dont look as elegant as the standard tips.) VIII with much improved rollrate *drool*.


this is new to me, any evidence?

Ah, just because it is an LF series Spit doesn't mean it was clipped, the two never went hand in hand.
Not all LF Spits were clipped, not all clipped Spits were LF models.
Some of the RAFs own tests with clipped wings were done using an F.V (not LF.V)

Been some debate about our VIII's roll rate, commonly held 'belief' is that the data used was from an VIII with extended tips, but HT has never chimed in to confirm or deny.

[Squire]

Not far fetched at all, they were done at the Squadron level and were not a big deal to change. As has been said, the "LF" designations have nothing to do with the wing tips, those were strictly definitions of the type of engine it had.

[Guppy35]

Look up the definition.  It is a deliberate communication of misinformaiton.  Your choice of wording is wrong.   

Let me say for the last time... the clipped wings happened at the factory or when the unit swapped roles.  Not sortie to sortie and some want to have happen in AH2.   

And let's clarify that you are incorrect about this.

A pair of RCAF Spit 16s near the end of the war.  lead guy has clipped wings. His Wingman has full span.  I don't think that they were switching roles in flight   I wouldn't want the option in AH, but it wasn't a big deal to change em.


Larger version of the same photo.  It was from a different book and too big to catch both birds on the scanner. Didn't want anyone thinking it was two different photos, which is why the smaller version was included.  Squadron is the squadron of our default Spit 16 skin  443 RCAF

[Stoney]

Ask Bodhi how hard they are to change--he does it for a living...

[Guppy35]

Two quote the entire paragraph from the Spitfire V Manual on the wing tips.

"The detachable wing-tip is secured to the plane by two bolts, one at each spar, the joint being covered by a metal strip.  The main rip and the spar portion of the tip are metal but the outer formers and ribs are of spruce, the metal skin being attached to them with wood screws.  The leading edge of the  wing-tip houses a navigation lamp.  When the aircraft is flown without the wing-tips, a fairing is fitted in place of the wingtip. see Fig 6a"

Fig 6a


Remembered this, just so we don't get and 'it was the end of the war' argument.  4th FG Spit Vs prior to transitioning to Jugs and while still flying Ops.  One full span, one clipped.  Same time

[OOZ662]

Might just be my eyes at this time of night, but it actually looks like that Spit in back has one full tip and one removed at the moment.

In case you have not noticed, HTC isnt about to perk some loadout and not others on a plane... they either perk or dont perk an entire plane.  So your option of partial perkin' isnt even a possibility.

In case you have not noticed, one of the major upcoming features planned for Aces High is the perked loadout system, with which you may pay perks for the use of stronger (and possibly rarer) ammunition an ordnance. Other than the fact that you'd need to calculate a new flight model for every variant with every wing combo, it probably wouldn't be that hard of a job once that system is in place.

[Kev367th]

Poss combos for AH Spits

CL-Clipped, FS-Full Span, EX-Extended.

Can't remember seeing a pic of a clipped VIII.
Clipped XIV was an FR.XIV

V   - CL, FS
VIII- ??, FS, EX
IX  - CL, FS ,EX
XIV- CL, FS
XVI- CL, FS

Think if they implemented it, I would only add the EX versions if they included a Merlin 70 series motor.