My take on AcesHigh

[CCRIDER]

I hope that this game has every plane WWII ever used on it eventually. Dweeby or not. They were all there. If the C hog was really this good than thats the way it was. I don't think it's as great as most people make it out to be on here. I fly the 38 most of the time. Most people don't fly the plane. I've shoot down about every kinda plane there is here in a 38. BTW I know I'm not a great pilot, but I was very good in AW. I got good buy flying the same plane over and over tell I figured it out. I think that in the right hands all of these planes are formitable. You get a guy that flies the Zero all the time and you will have a very hard time killing him in any of these planes. I think the Chog is a very good plane and good piloting makes it a great plane. As for the GV's we need all of them dweeby or not. It was something that pilots had to deal with in WWII. There were countless tank killer aircraft built on all side to deal with GV's. Any way what I'm trying to say is, dweeby is realative. How real do you want the sim to be. I'm a mechanical engineer and I've taken fluid dynamics and compressable flow classes and I couldn't tell you with out some complex math (and a main frame   ) if the plane are exactly like they we'er in real life. The point is are they close. I think they are close. I knew a man that flew F6F's and F4U's in WWII. From what I can tell the hog is close to what he described. He liked the F6F the best. We will see what thats like on here in 1.05. I took a ride in a B17 (the 909 if anyone knows the plane) and from what I can tell they got the model for it very close. I was a very powerful aircraft. Again I say all of the complaining is for not. Enjoy the game. Pick a plane you like and keep flying it tell you know it inside out. I would like to note I hate HO dweebs   I like a dog fight not a blast in the face. Shoot me down all day but dang I would like to dog fight. BTW HO's really happend in WWII read The Black Sheep by Greg Bouyington. So back to the reality thing. I guess I'll live with it cause it really happend. See you all up there.   ccrider

[easymo]

 I don't see why changing the scoring will do much. I see posts all the time by people bragging about about never looking at there score.

 IMHO they should crank up the power of all the guns. The A8 was one of my favorite rides back in beta before the guns were weakened. You would expect the guns on a plane like the A8, p47, in fact, most of the planes, to do all the damage you need at 300 yards with a good burst. Its not the FM of the chog and the nik that's different. its the guns. More power from the others would increase our selection tremendously.

 After you reach a certain skill level. This game becomes 90 percent hardware, and connection.  I see this, big time, in H2H. If I host, I kill more people than cancer. Fighting the same guys when they are hosting, I do,just O.K.. We don't have WB packet loss problem, when it comes to guns. But in someone else,s arena you are maneuvering a split second behind where he really is. This makes getting a guns solution, in the other guys arena, tricky to say the least. When you do light him up it should do some damage. This all translates to the main arena, through the effects of connects and hardware.

[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 12-22-2000).]

[-lazs-]

First of all... The WB Hog was a -4 and it was (and is) so undermodeled as to be useless.

Now... As to the "I just want realism" crowd.... roadkill.   You don't want realism you want specific areas to be realistic and others not.   You don't want to fly finger fours, perhaps the most important part of realistic WWII air combat.   You want the cannon hog and niki removed for "numbers" issues but you certainly wouldn't like the stang to be restricted to the last few days of the tour.  I call this "phony realism"  it is a group that hides behind the "realism" skirts in order to shape things in a way that they like and to leave out the wishes of other players.   They like to fly in a fantasy manner  but condem others for doing the same.
 
yeager, your problem with the Hog is twofold... One, you still think you are in 1.03 and that doesn't work.   Two, you have chosen a plane that is not a good arena opponent for a Hog (and shouldn't be).   If you actually flew a Hog for a tour or two you would see what I mean.  Most people find the Hog an easy target.

A lot of people sign on to fly a couple of hours in an arena that offers action and choice with as much parity as possible.   There are scenarios and such for the "phony realism" crowd.   Like a lot of guys I don't sign on to pretend to be a WWII pilot.   I think that's silly.   I like to fly simulated WWII planes and shoot down same.  
lazs

[Jekyll]

A bit strong there don't you think lazs?

 

You don't want realism you want specific areas to be realistic and others not.

Well DUH! I for one sure don't want to DIE if my plane goes down, and waiting on the runway for 5 mins for the engine to warm might be a bit much    Of course some might like to see things a bit more realistic in certain areas.  And the problem with that is ? .....

 

You don't want to fly finger fours, perhaps the most important part of realistic WWII air combat.

Lazs, are you gonna complain also that the Spit drivers don't fly in Vics?  Or how about early-war US Navy iron?  Should all Wildcat pilots be told that they HAVE to try to TnB with Zekes?  No BnZ allowed until 1942  

Sorry, your argument makes no sense.

 

You want the cannon hog and niki removed for "numbers" issues but you certainly wouldn't like the stang to be restricted to the last few days of the tour.

Yup, bring in an RPS.  Wanna restrict Stangs to the last few days of the tour?  Fine by me.  At least then we'd have a reason to see some early-war planes introduced  

 

I call this "phony realism" it is a group that hides behind the "realism" skirts in order to shape things in a way that they like and to leave out the wishes of other players. They like to fly in a fantasy manner but condem others for doing the same.

I only see one person offering condemnation here lazs.  I can understand you want to defend the C Hog.  After all, you have ALWAYS argued (on this board and others) that the Hog should do just about everything better than any other plane ever devised.  

Although, I must admit it was nice of you to at least admit that the F4U-1C IS is fact a fantasy plane  

 

[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 12-22-2000).]

[CCRIDER]

The reason to add the early war planes is to make them available for scenarios' and for those that just want to fly something different. In AW they had a lot of the early war planes. It was fun to get in them and fly them now and then. Some were actually good planes if flown in there range of performance. The Hurricane was a very good dog fighter. The P-40 worked as long as you B&Z. The Wildcat was a very good flying plane just low on power. I know this isn't AW but I say again it's getting the relative performances of the plane close. In AW I think they had it "fairly" close. I would love to see mixture and prop control etc but I don't think they are critical to a good combat flight sim. I do think the more planes and other vehicles available the better. In the end this game in NOT intended to be "real". Axis vs Allied planes in Euro and Pac would be less fun in my opinion. This is like a what if game. What if this plane or that plane was put up to this plane or that plane. I would hate to be the US pilots early in the war. I read Boyingtons book. He was in the Marines before the war and joined the Tigers before the war started. Then he returned to US Marines after the war started. He said that US and, with the exception of the Spit to some extent, the British we're out classed by the Japan early on. But I still would like them all on here. It would be fun just to see a shark mouthed P-40 flying around. Again it not about prefect realism it's about combat in WWII equipment.

[AKDejaVu]

Jekyll...

Lazs is a bit extreme.. but he isn't the only one with those sentiments.

I too grow weary of realism being used as needed in this forum.  Its only used when it suits the argument of the day.  Very little is realistic about this game.  The flight model is the only thing that comes close.

There is very little HTC can do to promote realism in the MA because it is not controlled.  As such, there is no accountability.. and no discipline.  The problem isn't with the game, its with the participants.

Give us all the planes we can handle.  Then give us some more.  Let us fly them whenever we want.  That is what I like to see in the MA.

I have ideas for realistic encounters, well beyond what the current scenarios provide... but that will have to wait until the above is filled.

One thing is for sure.. rolling planeset is a limitation.  It is bad.  It should be avoided.  Dedication to certain aircraft should be allowed because that is what some people want and it doesn't dictate what others should fly.

People spend too much time worrying about what everyone else is doing... what they are flying... what they are shooting... where they are shooting from... how much they are shooting... when they bail... when they ditch... when they respawn... when they vulch... when they spam ch 1... when they do whatever the new pet peave of the day is.  Get over it and play the fricking game.

AKDejaVu

[Karnak]

The only problem I have with F4U-1Cs is how bloody common they are.  If I am flying anything remotely even in speed/climb I find them to be fairly easy kills.  I just wish that they weren't my most common adversary.  I see a lot of F4U-1Cs, N1K2-Js, Spitfire MkIXs and P-51Ds.  I see a fair number of Bf109s, Fw190s and Typhoons but everything else is quite rare.

I hope that the new scoring system, in which points have real value because they can be traded in for powerful aircraft, will encourage the use of less popular aircraft because more points are scored with them.  The fear I have is that the system will award the loner, I-fly-for-myself-everyone-else-on-my-side-be-damned-I'll-only-engage-you-if-I-have-5,000ft-of-altitude-on-you type of players too much.  If that kind of mentality gets players more perk rides than the all-for-one-and-one-for-all mentality then I think this game is in for a world of hurt.  Having a bunch of selfish players in the best aircraft will be no fun for the majority.  Dying should be a penalty, but it shouldn't be such a huge penalty that being a self centered jerk will get you a perk ride that much more often.

Encouragingly, Pyro has said that they will rebalance the perk system as needed for gameplay.

We'll see how the next few versions go.

Sisu
-Karnak

[easymo]

 Taking punitive measures against the plane you might like to fly, sounds like a great way to get more people into the H2H arenas to me. Im all for it

 WB,s RPS system was a big reason I left there.

[Yeager]

Damn lazs,

I give up.

Yeager

[-towd_]

what yeager said, c hog ruined a great game the bbs were basicaly freindly befor now its 2 sides . they just want the stupid plain in the game and arent interested when you point its flaws out . such is life vote with you pocket book cause htc aint listening

[Torque]

Some people around here need to get laid more often and not just by their left hands.

[Andy Bush]

Interesting discussion!

Yeager...good topic! A comment on this...

>>The closer it gets to recreating the real thing, the happier I am. I dont mean engine startup and oxygen discipline. I mean air to air combat manoevering, strategy and tactics.<<

I agree with what you are getting at. Just one observation. In RL, simulators are used to teach procedures for the most part...things like switchology, instrument maneuvers, radar and ECM work...all things that are not too 'visual' in nature.

So I smile a bit when the posts get into a 'sim vs game' discussion. Personally, I don't care. Most 'air combat sims' are games to me...lots of fun, but not too weighty!

With the mixed plane set in the MA, it seems these types of varying opinions will always be with us. But for now, that's the way AH is set up, so my vote is to live with it...have fun and don't sweat the small stuff!

One thing that makes me wonder...the ever-present mention of certain aircraft models. The Fw-190D, for example. Why the interest? Is it because someone just likes its looks? Or is it because it had great performance? If so, is not such a selection going in the direction of the Chog? Will this become a "My uber plane is OK, but your isn't" type of argument?

In any case...in AH as in RL...it ain't the plane, it's the pilot! My guess is the good pilots here will be good in any plane...and the poor ones will still be poor, no matter what they fly. Yes, the under-skilled Chog pilots will get their occasional YGBSM death ray kill...but so what?

Lazs...good points...maybe a little strong worded...but, not to worry! There's room here for everyone.

Andy

[Toad]

Torque,

Left hand, Right hand...whatever.

I just wish those sumb*tches would leave the livestock alone!

 

[BBGunn]

I agree with what Yeager said about strategy and tactics.  To me that's the meat and potatoes of gaming in general. I think maybe what Pyro was refering to in his comments was that there is some "Calvin and Hobbes" in each one of us.  No matter how realistic the simulation becomes we still need to engage some imagination.  I had some terrific dirt clod battles as a kid.  We did not have all this computer stuff back then so we picked our battle field outside away from the eyes of our wary parents and fought our play wars. After the "war" was over it was back to regular life.

[This message has been edited by BBGunn (edited 12-23-2000).]

[jedi]

It will be interesting to watch how the sim "evolves" now that most of the elements are in place for it to do all the things WB does, with only a few missing key planes to be added.

I'll bet almost everyone wants to see the inclusion of the early war planes, BUT once you do that, things will never be the same.  You will find that many of the players favorite planes are things like Hurricanes and Emils and A6M2s.  Great, you say, now they can fly their favorites.  Only they can't, except as cannon fodder, because you'll soon see that "fair play" is not something the community at large is really interested in, at least not "voluntarily."

So once the early planes are here, you will be forced into an RPS of some kind.  Maybe it will be daily plane intros, maybe an alternating early/late tour, who knows?  But the early war fans will demand that they get a chance to fly their planes in an arena WITHOUT CHogs and Nikis.  And the counter-arguments will sound very selfish, and, in the end, you'll get an RPS.

And then you'll be at the crossroads:  either keep the main arena Spit vs Spit concept, or try something different.  And you'll have two schools of thought on whether the "casual" gladiator arena is the way to go, or some sort of quasi-historical setup.  And probably not enough players to make both systems work simultaneously.  Unless iEN goes belly up of course (don't wish for something too hard--you might get it)  

Interesting times ahead I reckon...

--jedi

 

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