Author Topic: Water shade/plane invisibility.  (Read 1684 times)

Offline BnZs

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Re: Water shade/plane invisibility.
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2008, 09:48:20 AM »
by selective I mean you chose a pic where the aircraft is
1. 3x closer than your screenies

You exaggerate and this is irrelevant because you could shrink the picture to 33.3% its current size and the outline of the aircraft would still be clear.

2. backlit with a massively bright and clear sunset

A specious objection because MA weather is always sunny.
 
3. of a type which has very clear visual clues of its orientation.

Irrelevant, the whole point was you could see the aircraft in silhouette. Remember, the problem is NOT that AHII airplanes become silhouettes under some lighting conditions, the problem is that he silhouette itself melts into the background.


I tried to find a pic taken from a suitable distance and angle of a navy camo small military aircraft flying at 50' over a sea which is roughly the same colour as the camo. Couldn't find one, probably because the aircraft would be very difficult to make out, and thats not generally what photographers want for their subject...

There are many pictures like that. The "invisibility cloak" such aircraft have is the copious amount of spray and disturbance the passage of a high-powered a/c at high speed causes...oh wait, that's the OPPOSITE of camouflaging yourself, now isn't it?
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Water shade/plane invisibility.
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2008, 01:21:02 PM »
lol if I posted 2+2=4 you'd find a way to disagree with it. im out :salute
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Offline BnZs

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Re: Water shade/plane invisibility.
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2008, 04:59:50 PM »
Yes, when one is correct, the arguments pretty much form themselves.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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Re: Water shade/plane invisibility.
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2008, 05:26:55 PM »
So what you are all saying is the water while the sun is going down or just up, is making a aircraft harder to see against the background. HOLY CRAP WHAT A CONCEPT!

"the problem is that he silhouette itself melts into the background."
 
You do understand this is why we started coloring our ground forces and aircraft ever sence the american cival war, something about shooting while walking around in red and blue uniforms, in a brown and green inviroment, doesnt take a rocket scientest to know its a bad idea.
If you are having a hard time seeing a aircraft, then the paintjob is DOING its job.

**Only real option is to make all the sea textures the same.** So we can make it easyer for you aparent ACE pilots to get your kills on the first pass. Obviously the big aircraft name and the range does nothing for you.

So fellas, can i get a amen when i have a hard time killing olav drab green planes against the green backgrounds of the land textures!?

oh wait, that only figures too, hmm. OH!..lets make it so they can have snow, then I can see everyone no matter what.
 :aok  (Strong sarcasm)

Cause its all about me.  :cry
« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 05:30:33 PM by BaDkaRmA158Th »
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Offline moot

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Re: Water shade/plane invisibility.
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2008, 05:31:38 PM »
It's not the principle he's arguing, it's how it's rendered in AH.
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: Water shade/plane invisibility.
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2008, 06:06:43 PM »
Just my two cents, but BnZ, I noticed you mentioned you keep your gamma at 1.7.  That could be a contributing factor to the problem you are having.  You shouldn't need to bump it up that high.  If you do (or have to), then you might need to upgrade some video components on your rig.
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Offline BnZs

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Re: Water shade/plane invisibility.
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2008, 08:12:24 PM »
Sir, go find a boat or other 40 foot object on or above open water at twilight on a clear day. Go 200 yards from it. If it's outline melts to nothing against the water, then tell us. We'll pass the hat to buy your cane and dog.

And btw, it is not just "water colored" paint schemes that disappear against water. In fact, you'll notice that the F6F shows up BETTER than the green and brown default 109 skin and the black 110 skin. (Those who are fishermen will know that black is a good choice for lures such as plastic worms, because it is highly visible in a wide variety of light/water conditions while simultaneously looking more naturalistic.

And the icon btw, is almost useless if you can't even see the planform. The icon is deliberately coy about distance (which is a good thing-brings more pilot judgment of closure rate and range into play-in short, it makes overshoots by deceleration much more possible than they would otherwise be) and tells you nothing about angles. You'd be better off able to see the plane and having no icons.

I have pointed out before, if you assert that what happens in the MA in twilight is an *accurate* representation of reality, then the water in several custom maps must be crapulent...

And remember, in AHII, it is a problem even in broad daylight.

I also see a misunderstanding of the uses and limits of camouflage. It works best when there are objects behind and/or in front of you to break up your outline. For an object thousands of feet away from any other objects, or with only the relative uniformity of the open sea for background, it might help conceal you from casual glances from a few thousand feet away, but would do nothing to a war-bird sized object "Predator"-like concealment against eyes only a few hundred yards away. Camouflage is something various air forces have from time to time actually dispensed with. While the pros and cons of this are debatable, it obviously does not make such a large difference than doing so is completely untenable. Like I say, more useful on the ground than anywhere else.

An airplane's visibility problems in AHII are not like the difficulties involved in spotting a guy in full camo back in the bush. Thinking that the plane *should* disappear against the open water like that is like presuming that a guy could dress himself head-to-toe in concrete gray cloth, lean against the nearest skyscraper, and be invisible for passers-by who know he is there and are staring directly at his position.












So what you are all saying is the water while the sun is going down or just up, is making a aircraft harder to see against the background. HOLY CRAP WHAT A CONCEPT!

"the problem is that he silhouette itself melts into the background."
 
You do understand this is why we started coloring our ground forces and aircraft ever sence the american cival war, something about shooting while walking around in red and blue uniforms, in a brown and green inviroment, doesnt take a rocket scientest to know its a bad idea.
If you are having a hard time seeing a aircraft, then the paintjob is DOING its job.

**Only real option is to make all the sea textures the same.** So we can make it easyer for you aparent ACE pilots to get your kills on the first pass. Obviously the big aircraft name and the range does nothing for you.

So fellas, can i get a amen when i have a hard time killing olav drab green planes against the green backgrounds of the land textures!?

oh wait, that only figures too, hmm. OH!..lets make it so they can have snow, then I can see everyone no matter what.
 :aok  (Strong sarcasm)

Cause its all about me.  :cry
« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 08:45:25 PM by BnZs »
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline FiLtH

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Re: Water shade/plane invisibility.
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2008, 12:54:18 AM »
 There is no reflected light off the water in AH. So the only light we see is the setting sun. The dark side of the plane coupled with the dark non reflecting water makes it a dark mass with nothing to contrast.

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Offline mechanic

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Re: Water shade/plane invisibility.
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2008, 01:48:27 AM »
if you can see aircraft using Google earth we should be able to see them from with in the atmosphere, no?
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Offline BnZs

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Re: Water shade/plane invisibility.
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2008, 01:54:03 AM »
Yeah, second picture I posted up there was the worst sunset cloud conditions I could find with a seaplane setting in it.

Then I decided, pictures of ducks at sunset would probably be more common. Turns out a duck would actually be harder to see on land at dark thirty than he is setting on the pond....
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline 442w30

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Re: Water shade/plane invisibility.
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2008, 10:29:27 AM »
Like the argument for a different default German AFV skin or icons on aircraft, this thread is NOT about camouflage or how the human eye renders something in certain light conditions.  It is about how a given image can be rendered on a computer screen which has many limitations compared to the human eye/brain.

Looking at the list of players agreeing with this, and seeing that it includes some great sticks, gives it even more credibility.  The argument isn't being made by people who are failing at the game and looking for an excuse.

Change the water!  :aok
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Offline TwinBoom

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Re: Water shade/plane invisibility.
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2008, 01:15:55 PM »
You mean like this?
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