Dueling: What shots do you take and what shots do you hold off on?

[Bronk]

Sheesh just rematch and no pulling punches. Best 3 out of 5.  Post films and gloat.


 

[Shane]

Nice description.  So wait, why didn't you turn more into me and do this?  This is still going swoosh, right over my head 

<edit> Because of the possibility of a ram?  Meh, I think you need to play your A game and if a ram happens, it's the nature of the beast.

here ya go grizz... 3:25-3:50ish vs the pony... (1st fight is vs messiah in 109k - didn't know it was him, tho' - might've held a shot or 2 )   See how I held it into the pony? Check  Could I have nosed even more into him for a HO-shot? Check.  Did I risk a collision? Check. Did I scoot out of his shot?  Check. Did the pony get nailed for it? Check. 

http://www.speedyshare.com/544848769.html

Yanno.. now that I've thought about it... you've kept repeating I was making an early turn for some perceived advantage.  Actually, it's *you* making that early turn, either thinking I'm stalling out, or trying to  force me into a ho/ram response, which I chose not to want to take under the circumstances. And explained, why, yes?

By turning into me when we're relatively close (too early given the speeds), and I did have speed, you are also risking a shot in the face/collision in an MA environment. I'd definitely have either done what this film shows or... took the ho/frontal aspect  shot on the failed/aborted rope attempt as they come down into me. Both choices have their own risk/reward.

You eased out of those climbs too early. Was it because you knew I would also pass up on a ho/front quarter? Talk about looking for an advantage.   Or were *you* stalling out?  I'd never reverse at those distances in those situations unless I was fairly certain the guy was stalling out under me, i.e. rolling *before* my higher plane would. I repeatedly turned out of your nose (and upwards/level, not stalled out) *after* you turned back into me, not before (stall/"bail" clue).  Do you need practice in recognizing a stallout, perhaps? 

Do you get it now?  The film shows you just how fine I cut my rollouts from guns solutions. Sometimes I err, sure... but overall... nope.

meh.   

[B4Buster]

I'm shocked this is still going on

[grizz441]

I can't download that film right now for some reason.  I'll try later.  Shane all I did was nose down at you and fly in a straight line lolz.  Not really an early turn but lets just end this.  I'm not hot about it anymore and even though I said I'm not going to duel you ever again, we probably will.  I won't take that shot in the future out of respect even if I think it is completely valid.  You will probably kill me 3 seconds each time afterwards but who knows  . 


Meh.

[Guppy35]

Let it go for heaven's sake.  Who the heck cares.  The planes are fake, as are the pilots.  Have fun and forget about it.

[grizz441]

Let it go for heaven's sake.  Who the heck cares.  The planes are fake, as are the pilots.  Have fun and forget about it.

See above post Guppy! It is gone, you wrote this message fifteen minutes late. 

[dedalos]

Ded you are taking my words and making them fit your opinion. If you still dont understand my viewpoint or the reason why some of us try to make alonger fight thats too bad. It certainly has nothing to do with 'expecting to get away with an early turn' or whatever. And nope, not personal, just opinion.

S!



edit: hey Ded, here is a perfect exmaple from me and you the other day.

http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/example.ahf



At 00:55 i could have been setting up for a frontal shot and then at 00:59 you turn way early thus making any shot i could have easily set up, valid. I didnt even set up that shot, but tried to play past it to something more worthwhile. But it turns out that i should have taken it because i lose next turn. Notice my only comment is 'good shot'. This is not a complaint, I am perfectly capable of setting up those shots if i need to win. You messed up here and should have been shot at at least, if thats what you want to know here it is

Witout watching the film Bat, if I did mess up and you had the shot, you should have killed me.  That would have been my expectation.  I think my point should be easy to understand.  I have nothing to gain by not getting killed in that situation.  If I messed up, I never got to know about it and gained nothing by continuing a fight that under normal conditions would have never gotten to that point.  I know how to handle my planes by now.  The only think i need or want to learn is how to avoid those situations.

The other point is that telling someone you (and I dont mean you personally) that you had a shot and passed after he kills you, will lead to nothing good.  Dont tell him.  Show him by shooting him

[grizz441]

Witout watching the film Bat, if I did mess up and you had the shot, you should have killed me.  That would have been my expectation.  I think my point should be easy to understand.  I have nothing to gain by not getting killed in that situation.  If I messed up, I never got to know about it and gained nothing by continuing a fight that under normal conditions would have never gotten to that point.  I know how to handle my planes by now.  The only think i need or want to learn is how to avoid those situations.

The other point is that telling someone you (and I dont mean you personally) that you had a shot and passed after he kills you, will lead to nothing good.  Dont tell him.  Show him by shooting him

While I agree with you Ded I also think there's a gray area that you can't define with your philosophy.  I didn't watch the film yet so I can't comment on it, but the gray area of shot selection will vary on two factors:  1.  Your personal definitions of a legal shot and 2. The formality of the duel.  I guess 3. could be internet latency but It's not as variable as the above two.  I think most disputes (Including mine and Shane) was due to the conflict of "The Gray Area".

[mechanic]

Witout watching the film Bat, if I did mess up and you had the shot, you should have killed me.  That would have been my expectation.  I think my point should be easy to understand.  I have nothing to gain by not getting killed in that situation.  If I messed up, I never got to know about it and gained nothing by continuing a fight that under normal conditions would have never gotten to that point.  I know how to handle my planes by now.  The only think i need or want to learn is how to avoid those situations.

The other point is that telling someone you (and I dont mean you personally) that you had a shot and passed after he kills you, will lead to nothing good.  Dont tell him.  Show him by shooting him

rgr Ded i understand what you are saying completely. I geuss I am 'clearly not trying to improve my flying' see sig quote.
Sometimes when fighting you i do wish you would take it a bit easier on me though, we don't have to use every fight as hardcore MA realism training sessions.

[dedalos]

rgr Ded i understand what you are saying completely. I geuss I am 'clearly not trying to improve my flying' see sig quote.

lol, dweeb  That is not what I am saying at all.  I am just explaining my point of view and why I play the way I do.  It does not make yours wrong.

Sometimes when fighting you i do wish you would take it a bit easier on me though, we don't have to use every fight as hardcore MA realism training sessions.

All you have to do is say it at the beginning.  Remember when you would ask for BBs only?  If I know in advance I have no problem with it.

These arguments start because the expectations are not set.  As I said, telling someone after the fight that you (again not you personally) held fire or was trying something different, just does not look good.

[dedalos]

While I agree with you Ded I also think there's a gray area that you can't define with your philosophy.  I didn't watch the film yet so I can't comment on it, but the gray area of shot selection will vary on two factors:  1.  Your personal definitions of a legal shot and 2. The formality of the duel.  I guess 3. could be internet latency but It's not as variable as the above two.  I think most disputes (Including mine and Shane) was due to the conflict of "The Gray Area".

Not really.  To me, what I want from a fight, is very clear.  I want to get shot when I screw up.  It is the only way to know I screwed up.  In my case it is very important since I will give shots or try to make the other guy that he may have one to get them to go for it while I try to set up mine.  Not getting killed, gives me a false sense of success in doing something that did not work. 

And to be clear, I don't take those "questionable" shots.  If you think I did, I might have made a mistake or lag made you think I did.  I don;t do it on purpose.  However, you show your belly trying to get an advantage on the turn, it should be only be fair that you pay for it.  And really, I had a lot of people call a canopy shot for 30 degrees or more questionable. Comon now    If anyone wants a fight until we are on each others six say so.  Don;t wait until a few deaths before you mention anything.  (YOU meaning, anyone, not you personally)

[Shane]

it's all in the context of the purpose of the fights. i'd be easier on someone learning a new plane to give them the chance to stay in air and learn the finer nuances.  If i took a semi-vet and went 1 on 1 in a plane they were learning... they'd barely learn anything because they'd die... repeatedly, and relatively quickly.

so instead of looking at it as a "duel" look at it from a "learning/teaching" perspective, as some have already remarked upon.

[Shane]

These arguments start because the expectations are not set.  As I said, telling someone after the lesson that you (again not you personally) held fire or was trying something different, gives an opportunity for a continued/new experience.

fixed     

i guess i credited grizz with being able to take my inference.  I guessed wrongly. no big. i've always said it was all on me and never criticized taking the shot - just made sure he was aware they were deliberate gimmes.

[dedalos]

it's all in the context of the purpose of the fights. i'd be easier on someone learning a new plane to give them the chance to stay in air and learn the finer nuances.  If i took a semi-vet and went 1 on 1 in a plane they were learning... they'd barely learn anything because they'd die... repeatedly, and relatively quickly.

so instead of looking at it as a "duel" look at it from a "learning/teaching" perspective, as some have already remarked upon.

I am talking about me shane.  I do the same when I fight someone new.  But, and ask anyone I ever helped, I have never told anyone "I let you stay alive, or that I went easy on them"

[Shane]

I am talking about me shane.  I do the same when I fight someone new.  But, and ask anyone I ever helped, I have never told anyone "I let you stay alive, or that I went easy on them"

i don't doubt you. All depends on who it is from *my* perspective. I think Sunbatt summed it up pretty well from "the other side" of my guns in regards to what I'm saying.