Spit XIV

[Karnak]

B4Buster,

The Bf109K-4 out climbs it.

[Larry]

B4Buster,

The Bf109K-4 out climbs it.

Not until around 13k does the K4 start to out climb the 14.

[Rich46yo]

I dont think the 14 should be perked. Much like I didnt think the TA-152 shouldnt have been perked.

Now I wonder how much difference did unperking the 152 have on sortie rates and K/D ratios? My guess is not much and that for the most part pretty much the same small pool of 152 specialists are flying it. At least now some months after it was de-perked.

De-perking the Spit-14 might see a bigger increase then the 152 in usage rates, at least at the beginning, and maybe months down the line. But not much more. The thing is the reality of what actually happens in the MAs will continue to put most Spit drivers into their 5s, 8s, 9s, and 16s.

It would be interesting to see what really happens. Its actually very interesting to see so few 14s despite the popularity of the Spits, and despite its low perk price.

[Kweassa]

Not until around 13k does the K4 start to out climb the 14.

Actually, the climb performance of the two planes are thoroughly matched from sea level upto 10k. Between 10k and 20k the K-4 outclimbs the Spit14 hands down, and then from 20k and on the Spit14 starts holding a constant but minor advantage.

[thrila]

Baldeagle, it doesn't sound like you were pushing the spit14 to it's limit if you didn't hear the stall buzzer or any buffet.  

Bnzs i'm astonished you think it has good low speed handling, low speed handling is more than being able to roll at low speeds, did you try and mix it up in a spit14?  I took the spit14 up for a couple of hours in the MA/DA last night because although i used to fly it a lot, i haven't flown it for some time so this is what i found- (this is entriely subjective)

The spit14 nose bounces all over the place when there is input from the stick making it difficult to aim, it is prone to torque rolls if power is cobbed on and is also prone to flat spins if the nose is high or if the aircraft is slipping.  This is in stark contrast to the the 109K which can be thrown about at all angles- the aircraft feels steady as a rock low speeds in comparison, easily recoverable if a stall is entered. The 109k will go where you want it to go, the spit14 fights you every inch of the way.

We have 2 arenas now anyway, HTC could unperk it in one arena....errrr.... for an experiment.

[Kweassa]

Don't need no stinkin' experiment. The Spit14 doesn't deserve a perk.

Nothing can justify the Spit14 perk when there are D-9s, K-4s, La-7s running out there unperked.

[B4Buster]

B4Buster,
The Bf109K-4 out climbs it.

Like Larry said, not until about 13k, and you won't get that high most of the time in the MA

[BnZs]

Bnzs i'm astonished you think it has good low speed handling, low speed handling is more than being able to roll at low speeds, did you try and mix it up in a spit14?  I took the spit14 up for a couple of hours in the MA/DA last night because although i used to fly it a lot, i haven't flown it for some time so this is what i found- (this is entriely subjective)

I didn't take it out for any duels, but I have in the past. I didn't say it was a particularly steady plane, I do think posters are exaggerating the horribleness of its handling. From aerobatics and target shooting, I can tell that it does pay to have a yaw input device and use  it judiciously during maneuvers to keep the ball centered. It makes sense that a 5 bladed prop will generate alot of gyroscopic forces. But, the workload for keeping her flying straight is easier than the Ta-152's. I think many of the handling problems may simply be the fact that by and large we will be used to a prop turning the opposite way, all our instincts and feel are attuned to that. The Kurt4 and Tempest remain harder to control in the rolling plane and of course the 14 has the edge on wingloading on both of those in the turn.

It certainly isn't like the other Spits, but then again, a K4 or a Tempest doesn't handle like a Spit, that means they are horrible worthless airplanes now doesn't it? 

You are right that it can enter a tail slide if gotten slow with the nose high, but that is true of all Spits.

[BnZs]

Don't need no stinkin' experiment. The Spit14 doesn't deserve a perk.

Nothing can justify the Spit14 perk when there are D-9s, K-4s, La-7s running out there unperked.

LOL, the D9 is utterly inferior to the Spit14 except for top speed at very low alt. Even the speed advantage drops to a paltry 8mph if the D9 has a centerline rail for the drop tank, which must be carried for the most part with MA fuel burns.  The K-4 is closer in performance, yet has its well known disadvantages, and in a duel between equals, the SpitXIV should win.

Kweassa, the La-7 by all rights SHOULD be perked, the excuse for it not being is short legs and no drop  tanks. The La-7 also manages to have massive engine power relative its size yet does not have the torque difficulties other planes with monster power/weight ratios, like the XIV or K4, it in fact seems to exhibit almost P-38 like abilities in the vertical. But I digress...

[Anaxogoras]

Last night I was in a P-51d and tried to fight a 109K at around 12k ft.  After winning the merge (the K-4 pilot didn't expect me to fight, I think) his La-7 countryman climbed up into our fight and forced me to extend.  I laughed out loud watching that La-7 try to catch me at 12k ft.

The La-7 is only good at extremely low altitudes, so that's another reason why it doesn't deserve a perk.

[Larry]

Actually, the climb performance of the two planes are thoroughly matched from sea level upto 10k. Between 10k and 20k the K-4 outclimbs the Spit14 hands down, and then from 20k and on the Spit14 starts holding a constant but minor advantage.

[E25280]

All this talk has made me decide to try the XIV and 152 this tour, just so I can mess up the K/D ratios.   

[BnZs]

Last night I was in a P-51d and tried to fight a 109K at around 12k ft.  After winning the merge (the K-4 pilot didn't expect me to fight, I think) his La-7 countryman climbed up into our fight and forced me to extend.  I laughed out loud watching that La-7 try to catch me at 12k ft.

The La-7 is only good at extremely low altitudes, so that's another reason why it doesn't deserve a perk.

One,  while the La-7's performance doesn't *dominate* at 12K, but it doesn't exactly suck either. Check DokGonzo's for yourself Anax. The La-7 does not give up a huge amount in speed to the P-51 at 12K-20K, is as good or better in climb, and of course still has a much lighter wing-loading.

Two, most fighting in the MA is low, the La-7 has no reason to leave its comfort zone to hunt, and, finding itself in trouble, easily re-enters its comfort zone by diving. If there was as much, or indeed any combat above 20K the La-7 might not have inordinate value relative other fighters, but such is not the case.

Oh, and if we unperk the SpitXIV, then not only will we have the La-7 making the deck basically an untenable place for the high-speed E fighters to be, the unperked SpitXIVs running around will have the same effect at higher altitudes. If making the P-51s, Jugs, 190s, Typhoons, etc., obsolete in the MA sounds like a good thing to you, well then, I'm afraid we must part ways on that one.

[Lusche]

Oh, and if we unperk the SpitXIV, then not only will we have the La-7 making the deck basically an untenable place for the high-speed E fighters to be, the unperked SpitXIVs running around will have the same effect at higher altitudes. If making the P-51s, Jugs, 190s, Typhoons, etc., obsolete in the MA sounds like a good thing to you, well then, I'm afraid we must part ways on that one.

This very unpopular and ineffective perk plane will not, under any circumstances, be a very popular and effective non-perk fighters. Many players will try it in tour one, most of them will quickly go back to Spit 16 LA7 P51 due to it's horrible handling. Open it to the "masses", and you will see see all those average & worse players flopping around, despereatly fighting nose bounce while trying to hit anything and slowly spin to the ground...

How important even some minor changes to handling are to the popularity of a fighter can be seen in the LA-7. All performance numbers were unchanged, artwork greatly omproved.. but the minor handling changes resulted in a net "usage" decline by almost 50%!


And I don't see any way how jugs could be made "obsolete" by a unperked 14 - we already have a lot of planes both faster as well as more maneuverable than the Jugs, so they should have been long obsolete by now

[Anaxogoras]

Oh, and if we unperk the SpitXIV, then not only will we have the La-7 making the deck basically an untenable place for the high-speed E fighters to be, the unperked SpitXIVs running around will have the same effect at higher altitudes. If making the P-51s, Jugs, 190s, Typhoons, etc., obsolete in the MA sounds like a good thing to you, well then, I'm afraid we must part ways on that one.

You mean just like the SpitfireXVI dominates the furballs now?