Respect - Honor - Fair Play

[killnu]

spot on Shane.

[Shuffler]

I've only been online here for a couple of months,and learned the following things,

 #1,It's only a game.No need it getting mad a getting vulched 3 times in a row.It's happened to me more times than I care to remember.You can take off again from another field.Can't tell you how many times I've been shot in my parachute.

 #2 The Stratigists vs dogfigter augument is pretty silly.If you want to go man on man,why no stay in the proper arena? If you don't want the bombers destroying your hangars,go shoot them down.Seems like going to the DA would be a perfect fit for those why want nothing but air to air.Those that enjoy teamwork,tactics,and a well planned mission exectued perfectly can use the Main arenas.

#3 It's only a game.

#4, see #3.


Just my 2cents worth.

[Getback]

Some of this is centering around hordes. So I will comment on them. Most hordes burn out fast. I mean most play the game to get some kills and if you're in a horde that probably won't happen as much as they like. They start thinking hey I want some kills and they start lone wolfing it or they join a squaddie in search of kills. Also they say hey, the fights here I can steal this base because it's way over there or maybe they just want to GV. Maybe even get into their favorite bomber. Sometimes they just say hey I have a better way. As for me I join many missions. Yet at some point I will go solo looking to get some kills or do a little buffing or gv'ing.

I meant to quote this person: Who ever said something about there being no consequences to getting caught spying hit the nail on the head for me. I sure wish there were. Heck is there even a way to catch them?


To the individual that flamed 1plus. That is a very intelligent young man. He still has some growing up to do like we all did at 16. But I tell you he is way ahead of the curve.

[CAP1]

I've only been online here for a couple of months,and learned the following things,

 #1,It's only a game.No need it getting mad a getting vulched 3 times in a row.It's happened to me more times than I care to remember.You can take off again from another field.Can't tell you how many times I've been shot in my parachute.I GET vulched once. then i come out in a gv, or i up another field and come back to the vulcher. i think a lot do this.

 #2 The Stratigists vs dogfigter augument is pretty silly.If you want to go man on man,why no stay in the proper arena? If you don't want the bombers destroying your hangars,go shoot them down.Seems like going to the DA would be a perfect fit for those why want nothing but air to air.Those that enjoy teamwork,tactics,and a well planned mission exectued perfectly can use the Main arenas.the best here is to combine the two. generally, a good strategic actrion will draw a few defenders...thus startign a good dogfight.

#3 It's only a game.

#4, see #3.


Just my 2cents worth.

very well said....it is just a game...personally....if somehting starts getting under my skin, i log out. sometimes i log in when i'm already agitated by something outside the game...same thing though..if i can't keep it fun, i log out.

[Bosco123]

I agree with Del, right on. But that's not what happend to me. I started in this game to have fun, and I have to this day. I began in a squad, that was not at all a large squad. I started flying a C.205, and I realy had a lot of fun in it. After a wile, I started getting kills in it, took about two or so months to start getting steady kills.
I began fighting with people that I knew were way better than me, and I began to learn in planes that I usualy wouldn't use. I got into the 109A-8 and the F6F, and fell off the C.205. I decided that the squad that I was in, didn't appeal to what I realy want to do at that time, which was furball.
       So, I began flying around with diffrent squad until I wound up with the 490th. I liked those guys alot, and I realy had lot of fun with them. More and more, I began to get realy good at doing what I did, which was furball. My ACM was getting better and better all the wile, and this was only 8 or so months in the game. I was ejected from the 490th because I was doing what I wanted to do, which was furball. I took a hard loss on that one, and I began to reconsider what I wanted to do as a squad member, and decided, that I would make a squad myself, and set what I want to do and do whats best for the squad.
After a year of playing, I knew after a wile that I was pretty good at what I do. That's when, about  year of playing, I met Joker. When I met Joker, I thought Joker was the biggest dick in the world, telling me that he would soon have me in his squad. Little did I know that, that was going to happen. I denied everytime that he said that, saying that I would never be a Joker.
My squad was fine other than I never had anyone on my channel. Becoming depressed, I disbanded my squad, since it wasn't going no were. I wanted to be in a squad that had many people, and were in the Bish land. I was considering the SwampDragons or the Lynchmob, but there was only one squad that I knew more people in, and that was the Jokers Jokers. At the time, VansCrew was in the squad, so he was the one that got me in.
I didn't relize all of the good people in the squad, that were realy good sticks. From Joker, ghi to SirLoin and Cmustard (at the time), these people are realy good, I thought to myself. Then you had the realy funny people from Slammerx, to Peiper and Ati11a (at the time).
I noticed that there wasn't a time when I was on, there was another Joker on to play with. Also, I played with those people who are realy good, I played with them more than the others. My skill still was getting better and I got to the point to were I think that I'm the best in the squad.
The Jokers do horde and I'm not going to object to that. But you come to bish one day and you see how much fun it is when take a base to create a huge furball, which is what most of you guys want to do. Last night, there was a HUGE rook NOE mission on one of our base. ghi, immedietly caught it, and said that there had to be 30+ 110s in the mission. All of the Jokers uped to stop the cap, and we defeted the giant NOE mission on our base.
   We also had our own little thing on the nits last night. A200 was giving us fits, and we didn't realy want that base on our island. we posted a mission and withing no time, we had 60+ in the GV mission. We took 200 and the nits were furious. They uped their 60+ to take back 200. This was the most fun we have had in a wile.
We do things most of the time to create the furball that's not happening in other places, and most of the time, we win the war because rooks and nits don't want to defend. IMO defending is much easier than attacking. We did it 2 days ago when we told the rooks that we were coming to 150 on 200, and no one came, then they got mad at us because we were Vulching? would they have preferred having the hangars killed so they couldn't up at all? Its just that people don't want to do anything but firball, even when there isn't a furball happening.  

So you see, there are a few people like me, that learn a completly diffrent way that what Del is explaining. I went from learning to furball, to playing with a great bunch of guys, and taking bases. I'm sure I'm one of the few that went this way, but I know I want to have fun and have fun playing with people, and the Jokers Jokers are the reason why I love this game still.
<S>

[SlapShot]

I've only been online here for a couple of months,and learned the following things,

 #1,It's only a game.No need it getting mad a getting vulched 3 times in a row.It's happened to me more times than I care to remember.You can take off again from another field.Can't tell you how many times I've been shot in my parachute.

 #2 The Stratigists vs dogfigter augument is pretty silly.If you want to go man on man,why no stay in the proper arena? If you don't want the bombers destroying your hangars,go shoot them down.Seems like going to the DA would be a perfect fit for those why want nothing but air to air.Those that enjoy teamwork,tactics,and a well planned mission exectued perfectly can use the Main arenas.

#3 It's only a game.

#4, see #3.


Just my 2cents worth.

#1 ... it's good that you realize that it's only a game ... some never realize this. Getting vulched constantly is like putting your hand on the stove burner once and suffering the pain ... and then continue to put your hand back on the burner ... intelligence is not a strong point for those who continue the "pain".

#2 - You really haven't been around long enough and your response, I believe, is what you have garnered in other threads about this topic and are just repeating it.

What you probably don't know ... the original intent of this game (and I still believe it is) is to DOGFIGHT ... all the other things that this game has to offer are only catalysts to promote/create situations for dogfighting ... some may disagree, so to them ... let's just agree to disagree before a purse fight breaks out.

To only expect a good 1 v 1 dogfights to happen in the DA is (no offense) naive. What about the case where I run into you in the MA (no one else around us) ... co-alt ...maybe co-E ... and I engage you (in a P-51) in my F6F ... you simply do a split-S and run like a scalded monkey back to the safety of your field ack or maybe friendlies ?  That's the problem being addressed ... why wouldn't someone want to see what would exactly happen in that situation rather than flee like a little school girl ? ... that scenario occurs more now than I have ever seen in my 7 years playing this game ... and I just shake my head when it happens.

No ... I don't want bombers taking down my fighter hangers, not because they are trying to take a base, but rather they only want to squash the resources that are feeding a "furball" between 2 bases ... it's called "griefing" and there are many in this game who thrive on it ... more now than ever.

Those that enjoy teamwork,tactics,and a well planned mission exectued perfectly can use the Main arenas.

It has been years since I have seen a "perfectly" executed mission ... unless it's an NOE and those really aren't "missions" in my eyes ... most mission these days are nothing but a Fluster Cucks ... unless of course they have 9 sets of lancs, 30+ Spit16s, N1Ks, 110s, and 10 goons in tow.

[AKDogg]

First off slapshot, The AK's will never make fun of or pick on a squad because of the tactics or use of tactics.  If a AK is, they better have good reason why there are. We don't tolerate making fun of other squads. 

As far as the NOE missions, Us AK's do NOE missions when we are overwelmed as a country stand point, Flanking the opponent, or trying to split up the opposition (splitting up the defense).

Lastnight we had a good battle with multiple squads at a base.  Was a good battle till we got overwhelmed with 4:1 odds against us.  Up till that point it was a 1:1 or even a 2:1 against us which is fine.  We love that type of stuff but when it gets to 3:1 or higher, then it gets to be a horde against a squad and causes squads like the AK's to move elsewhere were the odds are better.  It not fun to be slaughtered everytime u up.  Lately I haven't minded the 2 on 1 fights against me but lately when they find out I in the area in my f4u, I ended up with 4 on me.  Is that fun?  Not really.  I been trying to work with the AK's on wingman tactics and I really stress that there should be no more then 2 AK's per 1 enemy.  Does it happen all the time that way?  No, it doesn't but they are working on it.

NOE misions deep into enemy territory is a waste of time and resourses.  Same with HQ raids.  AK's usually never partcipate in these missions.

[Bronk]

What you probably don't know ... the original intent of this game (and I still believe it is) is to DOGFIGHT ... all the other things that this game has to offer are only catalysts to promote/create situations for dogfighting ... some may disagree, so to them ... let's just agree to disagree before a purse fight breaks out.

I Think it's more basic than that Slap. It is about combat... any kind. Fightervs fighter.. fighter vs bomber ...GV vs gv ect ect ect. The avoidance or worst the pseudo combat is a slap in the face to the game's intent.

[Odee]

If I show you anything, it won't be the cesspool of the furball area of the DA, it has been corrupted and is a pick/run fest. We would do 1v1s at a side field or spend time in the TA.

There it is in a nutshell, people.  though I won't call the entire DA a cesspool, I will say that the Big Fight area reeks like a New York garbage scow in mid-August.

You want honor, fair play, 1v1, then head to a side field in the DA.

You want air to air furballing hit up the EW MW and LW

You want historical (semi-historical) the go to the AvA or any of the SEA events.

Tank battles?  Go play IEN's Tank Wars.

If you still can't find what you're looking for, then try iL2, WW2:Online or any of the other server hosted games out there.

That's my $19 bucks USD on this topic

[bmwgs]

I first want to thank everyone for keeping this thread civil.  I am impressed with the responses, and I will tell you outright I had my doubts that people on this forum could discuss and debate any issue without it turning into a mud slinging contest.  My thanks, and a  to each and everyone of you.

There are way too many people who play this game that worry about death and avoid it at all cost, and when they can't get away from the opponent and are forced to really dogfight ... they are nothing more than a 2-week noob on his first sortie.

Slapshot I deleted most of your response because I have a question only about the last sentence.  This is open for debate, it is only a question.  When someone starts a sortie in game, should it be a primary concern that they eventually land?  Isn't that attempting to bring some reality into the game?  I will state I am not a WWII Historian, or have any great knowledge about WWII, but wouldn't the primary concern of each and every pilot in WWII ( or any war) would be to land safely at the end of their sortie?

Fred

[mechanic]

At first, yes Fred, i think you have a good point. Then after a while there becomes a time and a place for it. Some treat the MA as that place, others save it for FSO or competitions, some lose the will to land all together. In my opinion, it's all fair enough as long as you enjoy what you do and dont complain at people who see things differently.

[Bronk]

Slapshot I deleted most of your response because I have a question only about the last sentence.  This is open for debate, it is only a question.  When someone starts a sortie in game, should it be a primary concern that they eventually land?  Isn't that attempting to bring some reality into the game?  I will state I am not a WWII Historian, or have any great knowledge about WWII, but wouldn't the primary concern of each and every pilot in WWII ( or any war) would be to land safely at the end of their sortie?

Fred

Yes and no. I attempt to land each sortie... for the most part. However how do you ever expect to land a sortie if all you can do when caught off balance is push the nose over and run? What do you do when they are in a faster AC?
 There will come a point in time you will wish for more than that. IMHO Either fighting them to a stand off or making the reverse is one of the most enjoyable part of the game.  Taking a lot of beatings will eventually lead to this, as will sessions with AH training staff. I am an average cartoon pilot with a lot to learn. How else do you learn what not to do without trying first?

[Getback]

Excellent post Bosco and AKDogg!

Bosco,

There are In-Your-Face missions and then there are real In-Your-Face missions. Yours was the latter.   Dadsguns and I have been saying that for months now. They see you coming and they don't up. Those have actually become more effective than Noe's in mho.

AKdogg,

I have been trying to get my squad to realize that about hording. They are slowly coming around. They are stubborn defenders though and often they prevail. But last night it was like 10 to 1 and there were too many bases surrounding the base they were defending. And yet when the CO called the defense off there was a rukus amongst us LOL. You have to admire that determination.

Yes you are right about the long trips deep into enemy territory. Most of the time if you get the base you lose it back. Frankly the first thing I will do if it's a vbase, small field, or medium field is kill the barracks to make it useless. I saw a Bish mission last night going about a sector and half NOE to get a base. Now I wish them well but it was so far and there were so many cons in the area I didn't think they would make it. However they did make it to the base but apparently all the goons were dead and while they probably got the town down it really was a waste of resources. They could have just gone less than a sector to nearby base that was actually more strategic to our country. Also that base would have been more easily supported.That's just me though and I sure don't see the big picture all the time.

[humble]

IRL yes, in a flight sim....no.

I have no issues with a player flying with that mentality but its not absolute. Every time this type of argument comes up I think back to one of the best discourses ever on the topic of honor and achievement. While most are familiar with "the man in the arena" I believe that other passages in Theodore Roosevelts "Citizenship in a Republic" are even more telling....

There is little use for the being whose tepid soul knows nothing of great and generous emotion, of the high pride, the stern belief, the lofty enthusiasm, of the men who quell the storm and ride the thunder. Well for these men if they succeed; well also, though not so well, if they fail, given only that they have nobly ventured, and have put forth all their heart and strength. It is war-worn Hotspur, spent with hard fighting, he of the many errors and valiant end, over whose memory we love to linger, not over the memory of the young lord who "but for the vile guns would have been a valiant soldier."

Sums it up for me....

[BaldEagl]

When someone starts a sortie in game, should it be a primary concern that they eventually land?  Isn't that attempting to bring some reality into the game?  I will state I am not a WWII Historian, or have any great knowledge about WWII, but wouldn't the primary concern of each and every pilot in WWII ( or any war) would be to land safely at the end of their sortie?

Yes of course you're right but unless you engage and get killed several (hundred) times you'll never learn the nuances of air to air combat.  Landing comes later.

The sad reality is that the "name in lights" syndrome is a huge attraction to most n00bs so the hit and run, OPHA "fighting" style is as far as they ever get.

Like Slap said, catch them and they are nothing more than 2 week n00bs who never learned to fly and fight.