Respect - Honor - Fair Play

[Bosco123]

We can do it with just Jokers or we can do it with the whole country, either way you guys just think "hordes" no matter what. Its funny, you guys complain about it, but if we ever swiched sides you would praise us, especially you Trafalz, and the Lynchmob. You guys don't like it because it's being done to you, and you guys cain't figure out how to beat us, when we beat your 40+ mission last night rooks. You cain't beat a 20+ against your 40+, funny.
Excuse me guys for the "horde mentality" You guys should post the same mission that we do then if you want to back your talk up, most of you guys are hypocrits talking about our missions, when you post you missions to do the same thing we do. We just do it a few more times that you do, and we are realy good at it, unlike the rest of the countrys.
Maybe the squad should swich sides for one month, and see how much praise we get from both countries.
Your talk is cheap, end of story.

[SlapShot]

We can do it with just Jokers or we can do it with the whole country, either way you guys just think "hordes" no matter what. Its funny, you guys complain about it, but if we ever swiched sides you would praise us, especially you Trafalz, and the Lynchmob. You guys don't like it because it's being done to you, and you guys cain't figure out how to beat us, when we beat your 40+ mission last night rooks. You cain't beat a 20+ against your 40+, funny.
Excuse me guys for the "horde mentality" You guys should post the same mission that we do then if you want to back your talk up, most of you guys are hypocrits talking about our missions, when you post you missions to do the same thing we do. We just do it a few more times that you do, and we are realy good at it, unlike the rest of the countrys.
Maybe the squad should swich sides for one month, and see how much praise we get from both countries.
Your talk is cheap, end of story.

 

[bmwgs]

Not the direction I intended or wanted this thread to go.  Skuzzy when you read this post, please lock the thread, its going nowhere now.

Thanks for all the sincere responses.  I at least felt I have learned a bit more.

  to all

Fred

[Fugita]

Not the direction I intended or wanted this thread to go.  Skuzzy when you read this post, please lock the thread, its going nowhere now.

Thanks for all the sincere responses.  I at least felt I have learned a bit more.

  to all

Fred

Are you kidding me? Did you honestly think that this thread was not going to incite anything? This thread is a perfect example of what's wrong with this game. So go log in, turn off 200 and play the damn "game". 

This is the part of the internet I really hate.

So many people with so little to say.

[TequilaChaser]

We can do it with just Jokers or we can do it with the whole country, either way you guys just think "hordes" no matter what. Its funny, you guys complain about it, but if we ever swiched sides you would praise us, especially you Trafalz, and the Lynchmob. You guys don't like it because it's being done to you, and you guys cain't figure out how to beat us, when we beat your 40+ mission last night rooks. You cain't beat a 20+ against your 40+, funny.
Excuse me guys for the "horde mentality" You guys should post the same mission that we do then if you want to back your talk up, most of you guys are hypocrits talking about our missions, when you post you missions to do the same thing we do. We just do it a few more times that you do, and we are realy good at it, unlike the rest of the countrys.
Maybe the squad should swich sides for one month, and see how much praise we get from both countries.
Your talk is cheap, end of story.

Bosco,
your quick replys without forethought kind of remindsa me of the tale of the Young Bull and the Old Bull standing up on the hillside looking down on a heard of heffers.... the yound bull says " lets run down there and get one!"............. The wize old Bull replys " no young stud, we will walk down there and then get them all!"............  food for thought............think about what you are going to do, or what you are fixing to type and get your on sense of clarification of how it looks to all of us on this side reading it, or hearing it, or seeing it done........ I admire the eagerness of all the younger players.....and I have faith that they will mature into good AH Community members, and will get a lot of Chuckles ( themselves ) in years past as they grow wizer......as each and everyone of us have in many past moons........

[bmwgs]

Are you kidding me? Did you honestly think that this thread was not going to incite anything? This thread is a perfect example of what's wrong with this game. So go log in, turn off 200 and play the damn "game". 

This is the part of the internet I really hate.

So many people with so little to say.

I was sitting and debating wheather I was going to respond to your post or not.  I then read your sig line.  Pretty much says it for me.

This will be my last post in this thread.  I will again thank everyone for their responses.

 

Fred

[BnZs]

Respect

You people don't know me. Even my squaddies don't know me. I don't know you all. For the most part, we cannot even determine whether or not someone is worthy of "respect". What we should go for instead is civility.

Honor

If a player were to cheat or violate the official ROE for an event or something, that would be dishonorable. This talk of ROE leads into the next topic...

Fair play

The game is fair in that everyone has the same chance to fly the same planes on the same missions in the same way if they wish. Some people wish to artificially force ROE upon the MA but they are neither official, universally accepted, or enforced, so their is hardly any dishonor in not following them. For instance, a rule such as "thou shalt not attack a bandit with superior numbers (gang)" is something that I will gladly follow to the letter-when it becomes an actual rule in the MA, is enforced, and I can have a reasonable expectation of being protected by the rule as well. Otherwise it is just a preference that I may follow or set aside depending on situation.

[pluck]

For instance, a rule such as "thou shalt not attack a bandit with superior numbers (gang)" is something that I will gladly follow to the letter-when it becomes an actual rule in the MA, is enforced, and I can have a reasonable expectation of being protected by the rule as well. Otherwise it is just a preference that I may follow or set aside depending on situation.

To take this argument to the extreme.  It is a good thing we have laws that prohibit stealing, murder, speeding...otherwise some would do it freely depending on situation.  By this same definition, it is fine to spy as there is no rule against it. nothing wrong with waves upon waves of bomb and bail pilots. Guess there can be no problem with spying as well.  There are a whole list of items that are not exactly against the rules, or not enforcable...many which some would believe are just tools of the game.  Not taking a stand and just saying that basically anything goes depending on the situation as long as it doesn't violate HTC rules, doesn't (imho) equate to good gameplay.  Not trying to  pick on you, but the statement just struck me as a way to justify and promote gamey/lame type of gameplay.  Not saying you are that type of player, but it seems a bit of a bad way of looking things. 

Most games have a set of rules, but also most games have a bit of peer pressure to help steer the game in a certain direction.  This is especially important for issues that are simply too large to monitor 24/7 by developers and would be nearly impossible to change through programing alone...without alot of pain.  By saying it is ok to perform certain actions because there is no enforcement or rule against it is ok, is basically thumbing your nose at your peers/community and giving justification to any number of suspect gaming elements.

I realize that you are only talking about hordes, but the reasoning behind why it is ok is wide open for discussion and interpertation.

[CAP1]

I think this comment sums up everything wrong with the game in its current form. BTW I was there at the time and i'm guessing you were flying "RR" because I'd love to have seen you run +jase +dead or any of a host of other 38 drivers out of any arena. anytime anyone tells me they "perfected" any plane I know something smelly is being shoveled.

i've perfected the 38......in a sense. 

[CAP1]

Not the direction I intended or wanted this thread to go.  Skuzzy when you read this post, please lock the thread, its going nowhere now.

Thanks for all the sincere responses.  I at least felt I have learned a bit more.

  to all

Fred

don't sweat it dude....you tried......that's the best ya can do really.........

<<S>>

[uptown]

  This crap is classic 

[uptown]

We can do it with just Jokers or we can do it with the whole country, either way you guys just think "hordes" no matter what. Its funny, you guys complain about it, but if we ever swiched sides you would praise us, especially you Trafalz, and the Lynchmob. You guys don't like it because it's being done to you, and you guys cain't figure out how to beat us, when we beat your 40+ mission last night rooks. You cain't beat a 20+ against your 40+, funny.
Excuse me guys for the "horde mentality" You guys should post the same mission that we do then if you want to back your talk up, most of you guys are hypocrits talking about our missions, when you post you missions to do the same thing we do. We just do it a few more times that you do, and we are realy good at it, unlike the rest of the countrys.
Maybe the squad should swich sides for one month, and see how much praise we get from both countries.
Your talk is cheap, end of story.

I think he really believes what they do matters somehow 

[Raptor]

My coming into AH was a little different than most. I was lured in with the aspect of the free H2H multiplayer. That limited each arena to 8 players. I started off flying everything, seeing what worked for me. In H2H Free For All type arenas were popular, everyone on one team shooting down everyone else. On team based maps, it was difficult for 4 people to take an airfield, there were no squads or missions. You soon learned who was good because of the small numbers, you would often be shot down by the same people. What else was there to do than to try to kill that person. First, you try to kill them however you can. You feel better about yourself even if it wasn't a fair kill. As your skill progressed, you would eventually try to single out that one person who shot you down, and try to kill them in a one on one fight (plane type doesn't matter at this point). The next phase would be to up what that person was flying and shoot them down in the same plane in a single 1 on 1 combat. H2H arenas were much smaller than the MA arenas so it didn't take long to find someone. Next, you start flying more difficult planes, because sure you have bragging rights saying you shot down someone in the same plane, however bragging rights intensified if you were flying something conceivably more difficult, which is how I eventually ended up flying the P38.

To me honor in AH is not killing any way I can, but being delicate about it. If someone shoots me down, I will not gang them in hopes of revenge. Instead I would prefer to try to get them 1 on 1. If they have significant damage, let them land. I am respectful to those that deserve it, if someone is running their mouth I often don't care what they have to say. There are some people who I have fought have damaged my plane to the point where I was missing an engine/wing yet still flying, they could kill me but they pull off and tell me to go land. If that is the case I will auger to reward them the kill, because they deserved it. That is a bit more extreme than myself, however if I come across a lone con missing a wing, I will disengage.

Earlier in my career in AH I saw more GK's and GS's being exchanged than I do now. Now I seem to see excuses.

[Raptor]

NOE misions deep into enemy territory is a waste of time and resourses.  Same with HQ raids.  AK's usually never partcipate in these missions.

To me some of these missions have meaning, not NOE per say... but I find pointless missions more fun than missions with a goal. Me and Karaya create "Candy Mountain Missions" where we do absurd things like fightersweeps in D3A's. They are a lot of fun because they spark a fight and surprise the enemy. Whats more fun than landing 6 air to air kills in a d3a?

[BnZs]

Well, first of all, this is a simple game sir, so mostly outside of the confines of "morality". The exception to my mind is actual cheating of some sort, since IMO it carries the taint of the lie. IMO it is implicit when you play that you are going to play the same game as everyone else, grounded in the same simulated physics, so such things as deliberate warping or out-and-out hacking that are clearly out of bounds. When you go into an event with rules it is implicit that you will follow them by your joining in. Violating these rules more or less involves lying or deception, thus is beyond the pale.

Rules against most any actions in the air WOULD in fact be enforceable. Just as enforceable as the rules against someone who goes too far on VOX. Especially since it is possible to video our fights. I don't think this would be a productive thing to do though. I think massively multiplayer arenas are specifically about engagements that have random levels of "fairness" if you will, and the fairness level will almost never be perfect in the MAs. I can make a good tactical argument why 5 planes attacking 1 bandit is misuse of resources. I can make a self-interest based argument about why it is stupid to waste E and ammo chasing something you will only have a 1/5 chance of getting a kill on. I can make a technical argument that getting a kill in a 5-on-1 doesn't earn you any bragging rights. But can I say its WRONG in any real sense, I.E., something that would be worth trying to enforce against? No, especially considering the grey areas that are part of multiple plane chaotic combat.

By the way, I consider the opinion of the community worthless. Don't get me wrong...I can appreciate the opinion of Pluck, or Snaphook, or other individual. But a talking about the opinion of communities implies that an idea gains or looses value based upon the number of people who endorse it, a concept both alien and anathema to me.

To take this argument to the extreme.  It is a good thing we have laws that prohibit stealing, murder, speeding...otherwise some would do it freely depending on situation.  By this same definition, it is fine to spy as there is no rule against it. nothing wrong with waves upon waves of bomb and bail pilots. Guess there can be no problem with spying as well.  There are a whole list of items that are not exactly against the rules, or not enforcable...many which some would believe are just tools of the game.  Not taking a stand and just saying that basically anything goes depending on the situation as long as it doesn't violate HTC rules, doesn't (imho) equate to good gameplay.  Not trying to  pick on you, but the statement just struck me as a way to justify and promote gamey/lame type of gameplay.  Not saying you are that type of player, but it seems a bit of a bad way of looking things. 

Most games have a set of rules, but also most games have a bit of peer pressure to help steer the game in a certain direction.  This is especially important for issues that are simply too large to monitor 24/7 by developers and would be nearly impossible to change through programing alone...without alot of pain.  By saying it is ok to perform certain actions because there is no enforcement or rule against it is ok, is basically thumbing your nose at your peers/community and giving justification to any number of suspect gaming elements.

I realize that you are only talking about hordes, but the reasoning behind why it is ok is wide open for discussion and interpertation.