Respect - Honor - Fair Play

[Dadsguns]

do you ever bother to completely read a post and understand it before you run your mouth?
FLOTSOM

 

I should put this in my sig like donkey boy does........ 

Thanks FLOTSOM, you made me laugh,,,,

[999000]

Being a good stick and being a good player  can be two very different things......I'm a really bad stick.....I hope to be a really good player....
<S> 999000

[Bronk]

as i stated above, first off he has to ping them before anyone else has hit them, then he has to get away without any one of those (or others) he pinged chasing him down and killing him, then he needs to go sit somewhere being very bored and hoping that others will finish his work for him.


FLOTSOM

Hmm path of lest resistance... FW-190d  zip around pinging everything ... rtb 2 bases back?

Yep, I can see lemmings doing this as well.

I mean Cmon .. lancastuka... pork auger.... stick stir...ect ect ect.   If it is an option they will do it.

[A8TOOL]

I think it's set up to where the guy who causes a pilot wound will get the kill no matter what and the guy who puts the most damage into a plane gets it as well unless someone else gave him a PW first.

Bullet damage has a lot to do with it too. I have put countless 303 rounds into someone and with just a few cannon hits someone else will steal the kill. It seems to work the same when I'm using a spit 8 - 9 with 303's and cannon. If I don't put him down quick enough when there is a K4 or yakt around i lose the kill to the larger more damaging rounds.

I could be wrong about all this but that is the impression I was under.


The first bullet to hit a plane gets the kill idea sucks but maybe the first person to take a wing or tail off should.

[Bronk]

The first bullet to hit a plane gets the kill idea sucks but maybe the first person to take a wing or tail off should.

Crippling damage for teh win.

[FLOTSOM]

The first bullet to hit a plane gets the kill idea sucks but maybe the first person to take a wing or tail off should.

Crippling damage for teh win.

i agree with both of these, but how does either of these prevent the horde or the gang bang?

the only way to "attempt" to prevent these things is to ensure that these types of behavior are unlikely to bear any fruit to the picker (pun intended).

you cant see when an enemy player is pilot wounded, or some other forms of damage (like half a missing wing burning plane near its base ect) doesnt guarantee the plane will crash before it can land or ditch, so others will attack the plane anyways just out of the chance they can get the kill.

my idea is essentially a play on the simple greed of the individual, if they are not getting theirs then why should they help you get yours buy jumping the target with you or for you. greed and selfishness is generally the the basis of this type of behavior. if you remove the pay off you remove the motivation of those considering perpetrating the act.

if the cash box is empty then why would anyone break into it? no pay off no crime. now obviously this is not always the case, some will do it just because. these individuals gaming style you cant fix no matter what you do, cant cure stupid. but you can make the majority feel like it is a worthless and therefor unjustifiable behavior.

personally i wish kill shooter was off and you could kill the tards that annoy you without having to switch countries.

FLOTSOM

[Bronk]

personally i wish kill shooter was off and you could kill the tards that annoy you
FLOTSOM

Can't have it... BKs will never get up... to busy vulching one another. 

[FLOTSOM]

Can't have it... BKs will never get up... to busy vulching one another. 

      

 

[E25280]

my idea is essentially a play on the simple greed of the individual, if they are not getting theirs then why should they help you get yours buy jumping the target with you or for you. greed and selfishness is generally the the basis of this type of behavior. if you remove the pay off you remove the motivation of those considering perpetrating the act.

It is also greed and selfishness that will prevent someone from getting help in a fight if he asks for it or needs it.

Player Greedy1 sees three red guys on one green guy -- and he decides NOT to help out, because, after all, that green guy may have pinged one or more of those three.  Greedy1 wants the kills, so he waits and does nothing until the green guy pops.

Or worse:  "Keep going straight, I'll get him" and then doesn't bother to pull the trigger until the green guy pops.

Forget any escorts trying to defend buffs . . .

Terrible for teamwork, which is detrimental for game play.  Sorry -- first ping is simply a horrible idea.  

[The Fugitive]

i agree with both of these, but how does either of these prevent the horde or the gang bang?

The only way to prevent hordes and gang bangs as by teaching everyone that its not the way to go. Yesterday some guy was complaining that he couldn't get enough people to join his mission to attack TT on the isles map. I pointed out that it was frowned upon and that he should leave the tankers alone to battle it out against each other. He dropped it and moved on.

Another post pointed out that a lot of the people that do these things are the "good sticks". Well I hope he's not going by the scoreboard, nor the "popular vote". I don't fly as much as I'd like, but I'd be surprised if I've seen more than a few of the guys I'd consider "top sticks" flying these days. There are a pretty big number of people that I could see being considered as top sticks, but if you knew them, or had flown against them you'd know they weren't even worth of being in the top 200.  They get by on vulches, cherry picks, or gang bangs. They look like they are much better than they are.

I had suggested adjusting the scores to promote better game play in another thread. I know, "nobody cares about scores", but I bet the scores page gets more hits than the BBS  I thought that giving players more points for capturing base with less people might help cut back on the hordes, and so on, maybe the coding would be a nightmare, who knows, but its an idea. I don't see many ways of changing game play to make it fun for more people. Peer pressure, carrot on the end of a stick, or just a big stick  There doesn't seem to be a lot of options.

[stroker71]

ya know one way that would aid in defeating the horde mentality, is if only the first person to hit a plane with a bullet can get the credit for the kill.

FLOTSOM

So you the kind of guy that goes through and licks all the chips in the bag so no one else wants any?

[FLOTSOM]

So you the kind of guy that goes through and licks all the chips in the bag so no one else wants any?

  

whether i am that kind of guy or not would not really be the point here. but instead would you bother to steal and eat any of the chips in my bag after i had licked them? are you that kind of guy? are you a chip thief worried about losing your niche?

now in the answer to that question would you find the answer to solve the problem.

booming and zooming through the crowd and just scoring a ping or two on multiple ac would produce a host of its own problems.

for instance, if i watched a country man doing this i would denounce him by name for his gamy treachery on 200. i would also let all other countrymen in the area know on channel that this particular scumbag needs to die before they killed any of the enemy present.

i would also gladly continuously boom and zoom in front of this said scumbag hoping that he will take the shots and eventually kill shoot himself as i buzz through. i wouldnt even bother shooting at the red guys, just keep him from taking any shots. hell id happily up a 262 just for this purpose.

whats he gonna do? complain that i am doing to him what he is trying to do to others? who exactly is he gonna complain to? who would sympathize with him?

now if multiple pilots did this to this individual in a concerted effort, if every time he ups he kills only himself, how much fun will he have? what would be the point in him even taking off? how long do you think it would take for him to learn to behave?

there are many ways for the society to police itself if it takes the time to try.

FLOTSOM

[Murdr]

I see the repeated theme of, "if you see a 2 v 1, no need to make it 3-4-5-6 v 1 if it's not directly related to some base op in progress, ie, off to the side or away from a major-ish furball."  And, frankly, it's poor tactics.

This has been pretty much my most consistent gripe over the years, senseless gangbanging a fight in progress - trust me even "vets" do this thing, I can easily dig up posts from 2002-04 showing this.  I can understand newbies doing this since they don't really know better and are only wanting to kill something

On the other hand.  If I see the majority of my friendlies within visual ganging 1 con low, I will dive in an remove their target without a second thought.  I don't care about the kill though I do get it a surprising amount of times.  What I do care about is being stuck as the only friendly with any energy when the next wave of higher enemies come in.  The sooner the distraction is removed, the better off my tactical situation is

What I find more annoying is that the "friendlies" will avoid any high con like the plague.  Until after someone with some nads works the bogie until they gain the upperhand 1v1.  Then all the bottomfeeders suddenly want to join in and start shoulder shooting.

[FALCONWING]

This is the kind of stuff that drives me nuts!! Why would a person WANT to be the 15th or 20th guy in on a fight? To me, if I see a squad hitting a base I might do a bit of an end around and pork the bases behind the one the squad is hitting to help them out, it also has the advantage of pulling numbers away from their fight to defend against me, AND starts another fight !

Yesterday rooks were getting hammered in orange. We started out defending our main island then took the port on the north tip, then the cv, then on to A24. Numbers were relatively even, the fights were good for the most part.... did have some guys thinking running to ack was more important than fighting...but then the Bish horde gets together. I have no idea of the numbers, but I didn't both aiming in the WW I was in, I just held the trigger down and racked the sky. I got 3 before ghi dive bombed me in a B26 (another lame move). They captured a couple of bases, then jumped to the Knight front and ran off 5 or 6 more captures to win the war. The rest of the night was down hill from there.... cap numbers all a mess... people complaining about hordes... even saw a few congratulating each other for getting all those perks for winning the war !  LOL!!!

I don't understand some of this. How much fun is it really if your the 16th guy in on a base capture mission.... towns flat, vh is down, no GVs, vulch lite is lite but nobodys upping and heaven forbid you drop your bombs on the field !!! Wheres the fun in that? In a 3 on 1 fight yesterday, and ALL THREE HAD TOO GO FOR THE HO ! why? Am I such a big threat ?? I even ask the guy who killed me...on his 3rd pass why the HOs, he never answered, I'm think he was embarrassed... at least I hope he was. Maybe one thing leads to another.... you fly in the horde, so you MUST take every shot you can get, even a HO because you have to beat the rest of the horde to the kill.

Dude i have no idea what your in game cpid is..if it is fugitive then i am not even aware of you...i would think someone who routinely opposes missions would stick out in my mind...im going to guess we haven't ever killed each other...

secondly...did you even bother to read urchins post i was responding to???  i was replying to why its hard to find 1 v 1's in the MA and you seemed to think i was encouraging hording???  please save us both time and try comprehending the point of a post prior to replying...

OF COURSE NOBODY WANTS TO BE THE 15th PLANE TO A FIGHT...are you that dense that you seem to feel the need to tell people something they already know?  But when you fly a large dar bar over to 38 and find noone ups to fight you, then sometimes you do fight over the few kills to be had.  BTW I was at the base 38 you were referring too...it took us two complete town kills to get it...im guessing 1/2 hour.  It was a base on the rook main island...who would have thought the rooks wouldn't defend it??? When you popped up in the whirblewind there were 5 planes trying to cap and two if us were bingo...If you got out of a whirblewind in which you are admittedly not even aiming in and got a few squaddies to break the cap you might not get bombed and have to whine about it...holy cow your post is so full of what is wrong with the whiners it is incredible....did you consider launching from a nearby base and winging up with a few guys to break the cap???   NO...to griefers like you it is OTHERs responsibility to let you have fun the way you want it...

[The Fugitive]

Dude i have no idea what your in game cpid is..if it is fugitive then i am not even aware of you...i would think someone who routinely opposes missions would stick out in my mind...im going to guess we haven't ever killed each other...

secondly...did you even bother to read urchins post i was responding to???  i was replying to why its hard to find 1 v 1's in the MA and you seemed to think i was encouraging hording???  please save us both time and try comprehending the point of a post prior to replying...

OF COURSE NOBODY WANTS TO BE THE 15th PLANE TO A FIGHT...are you that dense that you seem to feel the need to tell people something they already know?  But when you fly a large dar bar over to 38 and find noone ups to fight you, then sometimes you do fight over the few kills to be had.  BTW I was at the base 38 you were referring too...it took us two complete town kills to get it...im guessing 1/2 hour.  It was a base on the rook main island...who would have thought the rooks wouldn't defend it??? When you popped up in the whirblewind there were 5 planes trying to cap and two if us were bingo...If you got out of a whirblewind in which you are admittedly not even aiming in and got a few squaddies to break the cap you might not get bombed and have to whine about it...holy cow your post is so full of what is wrong with the whiners it is incredible....did you consider launching from a nearby base and winging up with a few guys to break the cap???   NO...to griefers like you it is OTHERs responsibility to let you have fun the way you want it...

Calm down !!! I think it is you who should try reading a bit more here.

This is the quote I quoted...

Your point is well taken...but I don't think it reflects the character of individual players as much as what was bound to occur when you have 350+ in an arena...especially a small map...

You use terms like "herd" but in a large plane encounter only a small percentage are probably tuned to each other...but green planes help green planes and attack red planes...i think it is that simple...and when there are lots of planes then the 1 v 1's, 2 v 2's disappear....

I was agreeing with you, and the bold section as it happens to fit with what I posted which was "too many people follow the horde", which then brings the statement of "why would anybody want to be the 15th person in on a fight".

you then start your post off with this....

Dude i have no idea what your in game cpid is..if it is fugitive then i am not even aware of you...

and follow it up with....

.... BTW I was at the base 38 you were referring too...it took us two complete town kills to get it...im guessing 1/2 hour.  It was a base on the rook main island...who would have thought the rooks wouldn't defend it??? When you popped up in the whirblewind there were 5 planes trying to cap and two if us were bingo...

so which is it...do you know my name or not ???

For the record I was talking about A26 which is NOT on the mainland, and I'm guessing happened much earlier in the day.  It was Jokers for the most part and one other squad that had big numbers on at the same time for the Bish.

If you read back I havn't picked on any squad, nor running missions...other than the kids squads running NOE after NOEs as their main attack. I even complimented your squad on the well run ops that I have run into complaining only that you seem to concentrate your numbers in one spot....taking the fun away from the defenders. Thats one of the reasons I stopped running missions as the CO of the Mafia. It was getting too hard to run missions that were both fun for the squad with out being a "griefer" to the other teams.

I agree, in the old days the numbers were smaller so it made things a bit more intimate, you had a pretty good idea who was coming or who was likely to be defending when you attacked. I think with the bigger numbers it could still happen, but it would take a bit more work. A good example is the fight I was talking about at A26. In stead of the Jokers AND the other squad they were working with hitting each base together with over whelming force, they could have split their forces and had the Jokers hit the Rooks, and the other squad hit the Knights. More fights, more even numbers better time had by all, right?

I've played these games for over 10 years. Started as MDJOE in AW before it was called "classic", then here once AW close as MDJOE untill Tour 65 when I changed my name to Fugitive. Some call me Fugi  I couldn't care less if "your not even aware of me". I fly to have fun. The squad I'm in is just a bunch of guys out to tell jokes and shoot down planes. This thread was started to get a conversation going about what we think might be considered Respect- Honor - and fair play. I've posted my thoughts....you posted your uninformed rants ... well done