Land Grabbing

[BnZs]

If there were a dozen different plans people commonly use to take bases depending on the situation, then land grabbing could be compared to chess.

However, there are two. NOE or toolshed the base to death with high buffs. Neither commonly leads to fun gameplay IMHO.

[detch01]

Good question Grizz. I'm not a die-hard landgrabber but there have been times I could have been accused of it and likely will be again. So having said that here's my thinking:
I don't give a rat's err... um patootie for the victory (i.e. successful acquisition of real estate). The draw for me is playing with a bunch of friends with a view to achieving a goal. That's the fun part. It's more fun to achieve the goal but regardless of the outcome it's fun none the less.  As far as I'm concerned the differences between furballers and landgrabber/tool-shedders is entirely artificial and meaningless. Anyone who buys into either side of that particular argument is doing nothing but limiting their own ability to have fun in the game. They are just two different ways of playing the game - one is a solo gig, the other isn't.
If someone can't have fun if anyone else isn't doing exactly what they are doing, well <self-censoring>tomato</self-censoring> 'em afaic. I don't personally have that limited a view point on how AH should be played. It's your $15 - spend it how you like.



asw

[moot]

I've found that even the majority of those who actually like a2a seem to want to spend 100% of their AHII time actually playing, as opposed to practice and training, I guess I can't really blame them. Completely the opposite of how I like to allocate my time, but my mindset is uncommon I suppose.

I'm coming on 10 years of playing. Before even playing, I knew that maneuvering for a kill was what separated those that won from those that lost a dogfight. It's not hard.. Watch any WWI or WWII reel and see the planes tangle..  Whether maneuvering in a furball or 1:1.  6 months into playing AH, I half-purposedly ended up in the TA with Jekyll, a trainer (official I think), who showed me barrel rolls etc. It lasted about 30min maximum. After that I was drawing ACM curves like the aircraft trails you see in the AH film viewer in the margins of class notes, for furballing, merges, dive bomb drops into AAA, etc.
So the pessimistic rough numbers are 6 months + 30min = over 9 years of climbing the learning curve and having a blast while doing it.  That's hardly a lot to ask.  I'm a rubbish teacher at the moment but I'm going to try and improve enough to show anyone who's up for it that it's really not a pain in the rear at all to learn formal acm.  It's a lot of fun, actualy.  Like coming out of the chiropractor's with a straightened back.

[EskimoJoe]

Capturing bases is fun! 

[NoBaddy]

I WANT to re-set the map,I guess that is my GOAL,as well as others who join missions..Missions are a means to an end..And in the end,whoever gets 40% of bases on both sides gets the reset..

  I do not think it shallow running missions and taking land,any more than it is shallow always doing ONE part of a game that has many opportunitys for all to do something that they like..

...and there in lies the rub. The point of the game has been lost.

[JunkyII]

Some one touched on it briefly but I'll go into a little more detail.  Furballing is more or less mindless. The only skills you need is gunnery and ACM and if your really great at gunnery, than you don't even really need the acm.  But to take bases requires a whole lot more than just shooting down airplanes. It requires strategy, both tactical and strategic, it requires some level of planning, coordination, teamwork and the management of your available assets.  It also requires the ability to adapt, improvise and overcome changes to the battle field when things don't go as planned especially when you're facing strong resistance either numerically and/or skillfully. Now keep this in mind when I talk about rhe things I mentioned above, I don't mean the 30-50 man hordes.  Anyone can take bases with those numbers.  I concider it comperable to playing chess.  It's not so much the act of shooting people down or blowing things up, it's the intellectual aspect that draws people to that aspect of the game and there are alot of people who really think that games like these are simulated wars as opposed to simulated combat or individual battles.  I hope this helps

Well gunnery is part of ACM which fucoses on moving your plane into an area as to have the easiest possible shot

[Chalenge]

Everyone shutup and fly... 

[Grind]

I like to do both (landgrab and furball).  Actually I prefer 1 v 1 fights ( I don't multitask well ) lol.  There seems to be a lot of squeaking about the NOEs and stuff but all you are really seeing is an organized attack.  What you don't see very often is an organized defence.  We have radar, flashing bases and DarBars.  How many "up" to see whats going on before its too late?  Sometimes I feel like playing "Risk" and other nights I go into "Arcade" mode.  If I'm not having fun... I log.

 

[killnu]

Furballing is more or less mindless.

and shooting or dropping bombs on buildings is...thought provoking? 

It requires strategy, both tactical and strategic, it requires some level of planning, coordination, teamwork and the management of your available assets.  It also requires the ability to adapt, improvise and overcome changes to the battle field when things don't go as planned especially when you're facing strong resistance either numerically and/or skillfully.

More often then not (in my experience) when a base take goes bad (strong resistance), they attackers pack up and move to another field with less resistance.  I suppose that is strategy and adapting.

 

[grizz441]

  I WANT to re-set the map,I guess that is my GOAL,as well as others who join missions..Missions are a means to an end..And in the end,whoever gets 40% of bases on both sides gets the reset..

  I do not think it shallow running missions and taking land,any more than it is shallow always doing ONE part of a game that has many opportunitys for all to do something that they like..

                                                Falcon23

The reset the map goal is what I don't get.  Nobody keeps score on which chess piece wins the most resets in a given month.  I'm still curious though, does anyone know how many resets occur in a given month?  Or maybe even gander at a guess?

[Anaxogoras]

The reset the map goal is what I don't get.  Nobody keeps score on which chess piece wins the most resets in a given month.  I'm still curious though, does anyone know how many resets occur in a given month?  Or maybe even gander at a guess?

In midwar there seem to be multiple resets every day.

[grizz441]

In midwar there seem to be multiple resets every day.

Heh, I'm talking about the gigantic LW maps where each side has 50 bases and each side offers resistence.

[Getback]

I enjoy all aspects of the game. After flying a few sorties I then want to do some other things. Even after a few missions I move on to something else. Yeah I like winning the war and I enjoy missions. Large maps can be won. It hasn't happened for a while but it will again sometime.

Like so many have already said missions can lead to much action and as stated in my post about a6.

Most everything I do in the game is based on fun. However, sometimes I will up a buff to do the bombing necessary and while I don't particular like buffing it can be a blast at times and very rewarding.

[BaldEagl]

As far as the actual capturing part I do that to help improve my score/rank which yes, I do play for within reason.  Plus it's kind of fun especially when you get in with enemy panes/vehicles around and you take the base out from under them.

Another reason is that it allows me, as a member of a two man squad who rarely see one another, a chance to interact a little more closely with my fellow Bish.

Personally, I could care less about winning the war.  It's just another way to have some fun in the game.

As to NOE/sneak scenarios I've got two quick stories from this camp:

One night on the pinwheel map Rooks had three Bish VB bases (in a row).  Bish were attacking Rook bases captured from us to the south of these.  I NOE'd an La5 from the east to the middle VB, took out the ack then got shot down by a Wirble.  I upped again and NOE'd from the north to the west base, took down the ack and radar and got shot down by the same guy in a Wirble again.  Two friendlies were approaching that base on the ground so I upped a Goon from the north and took the middle field while the lone defender was busy.  Then a bunch of friendlies were attacking the East base so I grabbed an M3 and soon took that base.  Finally, I upped from the west and took the west base with the help of friendlies.

This weekend there was a major battle going on for the VB's on an island on the big water map with the three big islands.  I flew out an F6F and killed a couple GV's then went to the other base and took out the ack and radar.  There were no defenders as everyone was busy at the other base so, after landing, I grabbed a Goon and headed back.  Just before I got there we took the first base and I was sure I wouldn't get in thinking everyone would be pouring out of the hangers to defend the second base.  They weren't and I landed next to the maproom with at least two enemy planes buzzing just over my head but I got the capture (and a safe ditch).

In both these cases I see the fun as being able to develop a strategy that I, as a lone player, can implement and try to pull off.  I find great pleasure in being able to try to outwit and outplay my opponents.

[Sloehand]

It's all about competition and challenge.  And skill growth, improvement.

For pure furballers that equates to 1 v. 1 dogfights.  The individual against the individual.  No more, no less.

For the Win-The-War types (WTW), it's about team vs. team, whether that team is your wingman, your mission, squad, or your country.

The enemy has challenged you by attacking your base, so you defend, individually if you prefer, or collectively.  For the furballer, it's an even simpler challenge in that the opponent has taken up an airplane into YOUR air space, effectively challenging your ACM skill.  So you accept that challenge and compete to win, 1 v. 1.

For WTW people, there is more to the game available to them than that.  The enemy simply has bases that should be yours, or attacks your bases, or simply exists as your designated (by the game itself) as your opponent - that's the challenge.  The competition (in AH) is to protect your bases and take his, but collectively, using teamwork, tacticals and cooperation as well as using ACM skills when flying.  It is so much a greater skill challenge than just being a hot ACM dogfighter.  But to each their own.

I like furballing now and again, and try to get better at it, but it becomes very pointless and boring for me if that's all there is to this game.  For some furballers, that's all there needs to be.  There happy with that, and that's fine. 

For me and other WTW pilots, having a game structure that focuses attention on more than just 1 v. 1 (but including that from time to time) is essential to continue to enjoy the game over time.  That and the fact we enjoy the teamwork aspect -- the cooperation and skills needed to acheive concerted joint effort -- the goal of which is to take bases.  This gives the dogfighting aspect more purpose, meaning it stays enjoyable longer. 

And for some, there is the historical simulation aspect.  The enjoyment of pretending what it was like to fly in a squad in combat during WWII (or as close as we can expect here).  That adds another dimension and level of enjoyment for many that they wouldn't get by just furballing all the time.

We all really want the same things, competition, a challenge, a chance to learn and display our skills.  One just has a more limited focus as a furballer, and a broader one as a War Winner.