Author Topic: Global Warming :D  (Read 2995 times)

Offline MORAY37

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2009, 02:48:46 PM »
Interesting.  Wasn't sure I saw this coming, and I can't state the true significance of it.  It remains to be seen what this means.  The sun is still in an incredibly low minimum....solar wind today was down around 270 Km/s... I guess we'll just have to let things play out.

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The average temperature for the United States in December, 32.5 F, was almost 1 degree Fahrenheit below the average for the 20th century, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Much of the West and Midwest had a particularly frigid month, with temperatures plunging several degrees below average.

This winter in the Arctic has been a completely different story.

"It's warm everywhere in the Arctic. It's anomalously warm," said Julienne Stroeve, of the National Snow & Ice Data Center (NSIDC) in Boulder, Colo.

Both December and January have been abnormally warm months, which impacts the cyclical re-freezing of sea ice over the years, because these are "two crucial ice-growing months," Stroeve told LiveScience.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29038734/
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 02:51:41 PM by MORAY37 »
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Offline Eagler

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2009, 08:59:48 AM »
That makes the US a good target, since each member there is 10 times more of a consumer compared to....a chinaman.
Seriously, if we want to pollute less, use less energy, and keep earth's resources for some time longer, we have plenty of opportunity.

we may consume more than the average chinamen (for now) but I'd guess our total footprint isn't as large considering the enviroment restrictions we have placed on ourselves and china thumbs its nose at...
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Offline Angus

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2009, 09:48:17 AM »
You forget the "cheap" imports....
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2009, 10:32:23 AM »
I admit we pollute but I don't see how its getting warmer. My state has had more snow then it should of had

If you think a year's snow fall in your backyard counts against global climate change predictions then you have a lot to learn about what 99% of scientists believe is happening.  You should learn the nuts and bolts of the theory and the evidence that's presented for it, and then come to your own judgment about whether to believe it.
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Offline sluggish

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2009, 06:42:38 PM »
If you think a year's snow fall in your backyard counts against global climate change predictions then you have a lot to learn about what 99% of scientists believe is happening.  You should learn the nuts and bolts of the theory and the evidence that's presented for it, and then come to your own judgment about whether to believe it.

Your 99% is way off.  The fact is that most climatologists DO NOT believe in man made climate change.

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2009, 08:25:31 PM »
Your 99% is way off.  The fact is that most climatologists DO NOT believe in man made climate change.

Uh-huh.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2009, 10:13:36 PM »
Of the 2600 (not 99%) of scientists listed as sources for the GW mantra it has been said that 65% were political scientists (politicians). Not only is it easy to find scientists that use good proven science to dispute the theory of the GW mantra but most of them even study weather. Go figure.
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Offline WMLute

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2009, 11:18:42 PM »
Of the 2600 (not 99%) of scientists listed as sources for the GW mantra it has been said that 65% were political scientists (politicians). Not only is it easy to find scientists that use good proven science to dispute the theory of the GW mantra but most of them even study weather. Go figure.

Go to http://www.petitionproject.org/

Here is what the petition states.
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We urge the United States government to reject the global warming agreement that was written in Kyoto, Japan in December, 1997, and any other similar proposals. The proposed limits on greenhouse gases would harm the environment, hinder the advance of science and technology, and damage the health and welfare of mankind.

There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth.

To date  31,072 American scientists have signed this petition, including 9,021 with PhDs.

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The current list of 31,072 petition signers includes 9,021 PhD; 6,961 MS; 2,240 MD and DVM; and 12,850 BS or equivalent academic degrees. Most of the MD and DVM signers also have underlying degrees in basic science.
The qualifications of the signers of the petition can be found on the website link I provided above.


Now I SUPPOSE you could say that these 30,000 scientists are probably wrong...

And I GUESS you could write off nearly 10,000 phd's signing the petition as just a bunch of crazies who don't know what they are talking about..

But then then again if you do, you are probably so brainwashed that things like logic, reason, or scientific data would be wasted on you and no amount of fact will sway your opinion in the matter.  Those unfortunate brainwashed souls should probably quit reading this post now.

BUT if you DO decide to look a bit deeper into the facts, the people at Petition Project have a fantastic "Summary of Peer-Reviewed Research" that can be found HERE


Why did they do this petition you ask?  What is its purpose?

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The purpose of the Petition Project is to demonstrate that the claim of “settled science” and an overwhelming “consensus” in favor of the hypothesis of human-caused global warming and consequent climatological damage is wrong. No such consensus or settled science exists. As indicated by the petition text and signatory list, a very large number of American scientists reject this hypothesis.

Publicists at the United Nations, Mr. Al Gore, and their supporters frequently claim that only a few “skeptics” remain – skeptics who are still unconvinced about the existence of a catastrophic human-caused global warming emergency.

It is evident that 31,072 Americans with university degrees in science – including 9,021 PhDs, are not "a few." Moreover, from the clear and strong petition statement that they have signed, it is evident that these 31,072 American scientists are not “skeptics.”

These scientists are instead convinced that the human-caused global warming hypothesis is without scientific validity and that government action on the basis of this hypothesis would unnecessarily and counterproductively damage both human prosperity and the natural environment of the Earth.


But... but... Lute... the UN did it's own research on the matter...

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The United Nations IPCC also publishes a research review in the form of a voluminous, occasionally-updated report on the subject of climate change, which the United Nations asserts is “authored” by approximately 600 scientists. These “authors” are not, however – as is ordinarily the custom in science – permitted power of approval the published review of which they are putative authors. They are permitted to comment on the draft text, but the final text neither conforms to nor includes many of their comments. The final text conforms instead to the United Nations objective of building support for world taxation and rationing of industrially-useful energy.

(for some "interesting reading" on this U.N. study go to THIS link and read "The UN IPCC's Artful Bias Glaring Omissions, False Confidence and Misleading Statistics in the Summary for Policymakers"  by  David E. Wojick, Ph.D.)




If ANYBODY tries to tell you that "most" scientists believe in man made global warming (yes I'm looking at YOU Anaxogoras) simply refer them to the link(s) I provided.  The fact of the matter is quite the opposite.


(and before what's his name jumps me about not quoting a source (snicker... 'cause you know I only copy/paste things and don't post sources) the peer-reviewed research has 132 sources cited at the end of the article.)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 11:37:48 PM by WMLute »
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2009, 01:23:45 AM »
I don't even know where to begin, and I don't think we're going to find common ground  in this thread.

But, I will say this: if man-caused global warming is real, and we're wrong about it and do nothing, we are f*cked.  If man-caused global warming is a fiction, and we're wrong and do something anyway, we'll be more energy efficient and will still retain international credibility.

Even if the probability of man-caused global warming was 10:1 against, would you risk it?  That's how I approach these kinds of decisions.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2009, 03:15:21 AM »
No we wont but we will have a huge pile of dog squeeze on our faces higher taxes and worse off then we started. If you waste time on non-starters we lose ground period. There isnt a problem so wasting money time and effort is nonsense. Besides the 'energy efficient' items like windmills and solar cells require more energy to produce then you can get out of them in the products lifetime. Its more like one chance in a googolplex that man will ever be able to influence the global temperature.
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Offline Angus

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2009, 04:30:50 AM »
Look at the bright side. All that carbon-in-air=bad discussion leads to an effort for different energy usage and management. Way before we run out of fossil fuel.
Because....the business is always stupid to the last moment  :devil
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2009, 09:23:55 AM »
Yup, oil isn't going to last forever, but our efforts to slow down consumption and invest in realistic alternatives are desultory at best.  If you want to talk economic melt-down, wait for oil to become expensive again when Americans are still driving cars that get less than 30mpg.  What if, in 10 years, oil is $250 a barrel?

In all of these cost/benefit scenarios, the cost of being wrong about climate change, but doing something to stop it anyway is offset by the practical benefits of energy efficiency, clean air (medical care $), and strategic advantage over our enemies abroad.

No we wont but we will have a huge pile of dog squeeze on our faces higher taxes and worse off then we started. If you waste time on non-starters we lose ground period. There isnt a problem so wasting money time and effort is nonsense. Besides the 'energy efficient' items like windmills and solar cells require more energy to produce then you can get out of them in the products lifetime. Its more like one chance in a googolplex that man will ever be able to influence the global temperature.

I don't know about wind power, but your statement about solar-cells is perplexing.  There are many businesses that make money by outfitting homes/businesses with solar-cells, which in turn make up the admittedly substantial investment in 10-20 years.  If what you said were true, these businesses could not exist, simply as a result of physics+economics.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2009, 11:40:24 AM »
What I have said has always been true particularly of solar cells. There are people working on other solutions:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/bill_gross_on_new_energy.html
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2009, 02:39:26 PM »
Its more like one chance in a googolplex that man will ever be able to influence the global temperature.

Figures?

That's a pretty broad statement.  Kind of like, "This ship is unsinkable."

I mean, we can already prove that mankind can create "heat sinks" around cities.  In classic reductionist theory, then, aren't we already influencing the global temperature, however small,  since we've influenced any given local local temperature to any +nth degree?  (thermodynamics)

Therefore, I can already prove, at a 1.00 probability (100%, if you haven't been exposed to statistical probability), that your 1:googolplex is wrong, and your theory is dead, without even bringing CO2 into the mix.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 02:49:06 PM by MORAY37 »
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Offline bongaroo

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Re: Global Warming :D
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2009, 02:59:44 PM »
lol.  That was quite a zinger.
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