Wing Option for squad's

[Murdr]

Now, my confusion:  Who am I, or anyone else, to decide what is the "Right" interpretation of those rules?

dashed,

I read your first post as effectively "I don't care what HTC's rules are, I would like to see them changed since they can be circumvented anyways"...

As far as communications, we have a lot of options.  I would like to see a Squad name search to locate by squadron name, and other options.  I know that in the Claim Jumpers we have a standard text and vox channel, but would like to see the "squad" channel allow all in squadron, not just the wing.  But, you must also remember that having more than about a dozen squad members on a channel causes a number of difficulties, mostly many different Ops going on at the same time, social chat by some while others are in a tight situation requiring coordination, and such.

Putting limits on Squad size can be circumvented, in any case.  People would simply build closed missions between "different" squadrons, or devise other systems.

Especially since this comment by HT was already pointed out:

2nd if anyone else tells me they have a 70 member squad, I think I will just eject them. There is no such thing as a 70 person squad in AH.

Hmm maybe it is time to bring the squad limit down to 16.

Obviously I could go on for pages in this logical progression, but needn't.

How's this for a logical progression?  A squdron, in the game, and in real life is a pre-defined unit.  Obvously players are free to ignore the definition, and work around it to fit their own devices.  But then to come back and ask HTC to grant game mechanics designed and reserved for a "squad" to something different than a squad?  That is flawed in and of itself.  There's no reason to go to a discussion of "quality of gameplay" topics, because the answer is right there in HiTech's quote.

[Roscoroo]

Quote from: hitech on March 18, 2008, 12:36:04 PM
2nd if anyone else tells me they have a 70 member squad, I think I will just eject them. There is no such thing as a 70 person squad in AH.

Hmm maybe it is time to bring the squad limit down to 16.

HERE HERE !!!!!

[waystin2]

The end result being an ever lowering level of both skill and game play.

Hello Humble,

This is perhaps the only thing that I disagree with you on.  Maybe it is because I have always behaved respectfully and I am trying to improve my in game skills, I assume that most others are doing the same.  I may be wrong on this assumption.  I completely understand your viewpoint, please bear in mind that my AH history only goes back about a year and a half compared to your multiple years.


<Salute>

Way

[Saurdaukar]

This is not real flying... It is VIRTUAL flying...  But you cant even judge and control speeds well enough to easily formation fly in here... you are teaching them to become great VIRTUAL pilots... it doesnt truly mimic REAL air combat... just a video game. 

...and?

[TequilaChaser]

just like private vox channel 169 in KOTH and you and the others that were tuned to it, so a rule was imposed to prevent chatting in VOX on anything except channel 101 for everyone....we play by fair rules and strive for fair game play in all events in all melee arenas.... You never flew another KOTH after that day if I recall when the KOTH CM's witnessed who all was tuned to the channel.....I will bury that ancient history  now, for it was a while ago......

Falconwing,
I am not going to name every individual who was on the film, I do remember and can easily name 3 to 4 individuals who were tuned to the channel,

I never claimed you cheated, I never imposed you cheated, and I never called you a cheater........ I simply was talking why rules are imposed and added, basic reasoning is for better and fair game play.....

If you grant me access to upload 30 gigs worth of AH films, I will gladly let you review them and witness/view the KOTH film in question, and when time permits, I will PM you the almost exact dated koth and the postings made in the KOTH BBS Forum regarding such incident....... there was no claims of cheating made, there were however an assumption of possible ability to present players still flying with valuable information.....and to add this was the START /Beginning to the reason for adding the VOX 101 rule.....

hope that calms you down a bit....


and yes, I have from the beginning on a consistent basis scanned all vox tunable channels and privately presented my finidings to the KOTH CM's, so they could deal with it..for almost 6+/7+ years now........

[FALCONWING]

...and?

And you can be the best Wii tennis player in the world and you can't really play tennis or even have true concept on how to serve, volley or topspin a real ball......it is what it is...sorry to be the one to break it to ya

So the majority of folks play Wii tennis for fun and don't form secret Wii tennis uber clubs and run around and challenge folks to tournaments and accuse them of being skilless....

Most would view folks with that sort of behavior to be...well.......?

[FALCONWING]

Falconwing,
I am not going to name every individual who was on the film, I do remember and can easily name 3 to 4 individuals who were tuned to the channel,

I never claimed you cheated, I never imposed you cheated, and I never called you a cheater........ I simply was talking why rules are imposed and added, basic reasoning is for better and fair game play.....

If you grant me access to upload 30 gigs worth of AH films, I will gladly let you review them and witness/view the KOTH film in question, and when time permits, I will PM you the almost exact dated koth and the postings made in the KOTH BBS Forum regarding such incident....... there was no claims of cheating made, there were however an assumption of possible ability to present players still flying with valuable information.....and to add this was the START /Beginning to the reason for adding the VOX 101 rule.....

hope that calms you down a bit....


and yes, I have from the beginning on a consistent basis scanned all vox tunable channels and privately presented my finidings to the KOTH CM's, so they could deal with it..for almost 6+/7+ years now........

If you are saying that I was NOT cheating then you don't need to waste your time...I appreciate your clarification...I have NEVER cheated at anything and I do take that personally....One of the few things BoPs as a squad have never been accused of is "spying" or "hacking" or "score padding"....

I have never been addressed or spoken to about any issue of violating rules by the CM staff/KoTh staff so again i plead ignorance as to why I am brought up in such a discussion at all....if i ever violated a rule it was obviously something I was not aware of and was not brought to my attention...i would have corrected it immediately

[TequilaChaser]

If you are saying that I was NOT cheating then you don't need to waste your time...I appreciate your clarification...I have NEVER cheated at anything and I do take that personally....One of the few things BoPs as a squad have never been accused of is "spying" or "hacking" or "score padding"....

I have never been addressed or spoken to about any issue of violating rules by the CM staff/KoTh staff so again i plead ignorance as to why I am brought up in such a discussion at all....if i ever violated a rule it was obviously something I was not aware of and was not brought to my attention...i would have corrected it immediately

Falconwing,
I was wrong for posting your name, and only your name, inregards to a matter that has been long forgotten by most......
I am not trying or wanting to rehash any old news......I will stop right here with it, and offer you my apology,
I simply used a certian event that I could quickly recall, and out of ill thought named only you, when you was just one of many, and to where it was not a matter of being dressed down by a CM, or talked to.

I will drop it now, with the statement that I only used the incident as an example to why rules are imposed or put inplace.to help balance and keep fair gameplay....
 

edit: and the reference to channel 169 was one of the channels that others have been caught on, as well as 144, 182, 136, etc etc..... sorry but most people ever caught that I can quickly remember was 169

[FALCONWING]

Thank you for the apology and I apologize if my ill feeling towards Widewing and Murdr made you feel that I was attacking the entire Training Corp...I was not.  Since lumping all BoPs together and attacking us upset me, i should have been aware that the same would be felt by the Training Corp

[The Fugitive]

And you can be the best Wii tennis player in the world and you can't really play tennis or even have true concept on how to serve, volley or topspin a real ball......it is what it is...sorry to be the one to break it to ya

So the majority of folks play Wii tennis for fun and don't form secret Wii tennis uber clubs and run around and challenge folks to tournaments and accuse them of being skilless....

Most would view folks with that sort of behavior to be...well.......?

Who cares if you can't really play tennis. What does that have to do with Wii tennis? People play Wii tennis because its fun, they learn and practice to be the best they can be so that they can beat Dad at it, or their big brother. I'm sure there are many tournaments available as well as clubs should you or your family like to.

The same with Aces High. Comparing the game to a real life pilot or war is about the stupidest thing you could do. So learning to be a better cartoon pilot is the same as learning to play Wii tennis better. Its just satisfaction at playing a game well. You mentioned college chess matches. Your going to tell us you didn't practice? You didn't try different moves for different situations? You didn't want to play the best you could each time you sat at a table? Even if you lost, as long as it was a good battle of wits it was still fun and challenging, right?

That's all people are looking for in this game as well. Mega squads are like that guy you mentioned that knows all the tricks in Wii tennis, you said so yourself, would it really be fun playing against him all the time?

[FALCONWING]

Who cares if you can't really play tennis. What does that have to do with Wii tennis? People play Wii tennis because its fun, they learn and practice to be the best they can be so that they can beat Dad at it, or their big brother. I'm sure there are many tournaments available as well as clubs should you or your family like to.
  Exactly...they play well enough to have fun..if they didn't they would actively seek help or quit.
The same with Aces High. Comparing the game to a real life pilot or war is about the stupidest thing you could do. Oh no you didn't..widewing and others suggest readin ww2 strategy books to improve gameplaySo learning to be a better cartoon pilot is the same as learning to play Wii tennis better. yup Its just satisfaction at playing a game well. You mentioned college chess matches. Your going to tell us you didn't practice? Actually no...I was a natural and started at about 1600. after a few years i realized the next step would be memorizing games and openings and I lost interest and moved on ( i also saw what the guys ranked above looked like/acted like and to me they didnt have a life outside of chess)...seemed gamey and not about natural ability....see my theme here???  Instead I played speed chess because it was harder to game against..hard core chess guys said we shouldn't..."ruined our game"  You actually have picked a remarkably good parrallel to the debate here You didn't try different moves for different situations? You didn't want to play the best you could each time you sat at a table? Even if you lost, as long as it was a good battle of wits it was still fun and challenging, right?

That's all people are looking for in this game as well. Mega squadsyou mean hard core furballer/memorize plane speeds/insult folk on ch 200/practice virtual moves that wouldn't work in RL guys? are like that guy you mentioned that knows all the tricks in Wii tennis, you said so yourself, would it really be fun playing against him all the time?

[Murdr]

my ill feeling towards Widewing and Murdr made you feel that I was attacking the entire Training Corp...I was not.  Since lumping all BoPs together and attacking us upset me, i should have been aware that the same would be felt by the Training Corp

I didn't "attack" you or your squad either.  Did I switch to a much harsher tone when you threw the trainers into the discussion?  Darn right I did.  I repost HiTech quotes as they relate to current topic ALL THE TIME (just checked, 6 pages of search returns of keywords hitech and quote by me).  Who was involved in the original discussion that I'm quoting from is incidental.  If your perspective is so narrow that you assume me reposting a HT quote that you were somehow a part of is an attack on you or your squad, that is your problem, not mine.  And if you want to be snippy based on that flawed assumption....I do bite back.

[The Fugitive]

Who cares if you can't really play tennis. What does that have to do with Wii tennis? People play Wii tennis because its fun, they learn and practice to be the best they can be so that they can beat Dad at it, or their big brother. I'm sure there are many tournaments available as well as clubs should you or your family like to.
  Exactly...they play well enough to have fun..if they didn't they would actively seek help or quit.
The same with Aces High. Comparing the game to a real life pilot or war is about the stupidest thing you could do. Oh no you didn't..widewing and others suggest readin ww2 strategy books to improve gameplaySo learning to be a better cartoon pilot is the same as learning to play Wii tennis better. yup Thumbs UP!Its just satisfaction at playing a game well. You mentioned college chess matches. Your going to tell us you didn't practice? Actually no...I was a natural and started at about 1600. after a few years i realized the next step would be memorizing games and openings and I lost interest and moved on ( i also saw what the guys ranked above looked like/acted like and to me they didnt have a life outside of chess)...seemed gamey and not about natural ability....see my theme here???  Instead I played speed chess because it was harder to game against..hard core chess guys said we shouldn't..."ruined our game"  You actually have picked a remarkably good parrallel to the debate here coolYou didn't try different moves for different situations? You didn't want to play the best you could each time you sat at a table? Even if you lost, as long as it was a good battle of wits it was still fun and challenging, right?

That's all people are looking for in this game as well. Mega squadsyou mean hard core furballer/memorize plane speeds/insult folk on ch 200/practice virtual moves that wouldn't work in RL guys? are like that guy you mentioned that knows all the tricks in Wii tennis, you said so yourself, would it really be fun playing against him all the time?

Well I guess we are all done discussing this. You now just want to twist my words in stead of taking them as I meant. You have to bring in the name calling problems you seem to have with some others into it as well.

All I got from your last post is you gave up on chess because you were happy to be mediocre, well good for you. I would be disappointed if I sat down across the table from you looking to enjoy a good match and instead only found a mediocre player they had no intentions of wanting to better himself.

I'm not a "furballer", I'm not a "landgrabber" in not a member of the DFC, I'm just a guy who looks forward to spending a little time fighting against others playing a game. Even tho I'm not very good at it it's still sad to see how the player base hasn't even been able to keep up with my meager skills. In the old days I sucked, now I'm average, in a few more years if the skill level continues to drop as it has of the last couple of years I'll be awesome. 

[bongaroo]

you mean hard core furballer/memorize plane speeds/insult folk on ch 200/practice virtual moves that wouldn't work in RL guys?

1) I don't have any plane speeds or turning radii memorized.  I know a lot of great sticks don't.  But they certainly have learned through trial and error or observation lots of important plane characteristics.  Nothing wrong with studying up on the numbers, especially for scenarios or fso's when you know what will be opposing you and what ride you have been assigned.

2) Nothing wrong with hard core furballing.  Players who excell in large furballs will generally best a player who avoids them handily.  Why would you have a problem with those types?  (oh, I know, you can't beat them so you avoid them    )

3) What moves wouldn't work in RL that your complaining about now?

4) Sorry if 200 gets to you.  You can always turn it off ya know?  Can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen and all.

 

[Saurdaukar]

And you can be the best Wii tennis player in the world and you can't really play tennis or even have true concept on how to serve, volley or topspin a real ball......it is what it is...sorry to be the one to break it to ya

...and?

So the majority of folks play Wii tennis for fun and don't form secret Wii tennis uber clubs and run around and challenge folks to tournaments and accuse them of being skilless....

The majority of folks play Wii Tennis for fun.  What makes it fun is playing against someone else; the competition. 

If Wii Tennis consisted of a brick wall, on a screen, and required that you hit the ball against the wall and back to yourself, how much fun would that be?

Just like in "real life," not much fun.

However, if you have an opponent of equal or greater ability, suddenly the *point* of the game, be it on a screen or behind the local high school, is suddenly realized.  You employ your best tactics against your opponent with the aim of defeating him.  Win or lose, that is the fun part.  If you win, you feel satisfaction.  If you lose, you take something away from the experience and become that much better as a player.

In this particular case, the "club" in question has a primary aim of encouraging new and veteran players, alike, to enhance their understanding of ACM.  For those who choose to learn, the result is an increased ability level.  From 30,000ft, this increases the overall skill level of the player base and, by default, creates an environment better suited to achieving that key ingredient of fun; competition.

And, as we learned with your Wii example, above, that competitive spirit is what makes games like this fun - be they real or virtual.

The unfortunate difficulty associated with maintaining that sort of balanced, fair and fun gameplay is that it can be shattered very quickly by, ironically enough, a small number of players.

Since tennis is such a great example (thanks), I'll simply suggest that you imagine yourself playing a great match against a friend behind your local high school.

Youre having fun - the skill level on both sides is near equal.  For every mistake, you learn something and for every success, you gain satisfaction.  Its a blast.

Then, out of nowhere, two dozen hackers show up, trample your friend, lock you in the court and see fit to restart the match, from scratch, with you on one side and all 24 of them on the other.

How much fun do you think that is for either side?  Is it really competition?  Is anything being learned?  Frankly, I'd rather be the single than a faceless drone amongst 23 others, but even being the single... how much fun is that after awhile? 

Not much.  Pack your gear and go try to find another good match.  The hackers have taken over this court - no top spin required.

With that, of course, we rotate full circle, once more...


"...and?"