Author Topic: Disable F3 view  (Read 4247 times)

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2009, 01:08:02 PM »
What if.... instead of the standard rear-view on aircraft like the Il-2, A-20, SBD, etc., looking to your 6 o'clock gave you the gunner's view, but with the ability to still control the aircraft?  I can already think of a super-easy way to code this:  allow the point-of-view to move extra far to the rear, just as we adjust our views now.  It would give the pilot the SA he should have with a gunner's view, but not the God's eye view of F3.

I'm curious to know why no one has commented on this idea.  Is it that bad?  Giving the pilot the same view as the gunner when he uses the rear-view would seem to offer all of the SA that he should have plus the ability to control the aircraft (no autopilot), without the God's eye view of F3.

Extending the seat position range could be applied to all bombers.  Those with a ventral gunner could have the "0" view looking through the floor.  Anything with a dorsal gunner could look up without obstruction.  Aircraft with tail gunners could have the gunners view with keypad "2" and "2+5," but retaining the ability to maneuver the aircraft.

As for auto gunners, tankers who have complained about Il-2s have been told in no uncertain terms to stop complaining and bring a friend in a Wirbel or Ostwind, i.e. use teamwork.  Bomber pilots are also at liberty to bring a friend who can help gun and call out bandits.  In fact, I've done this with a friend numerous times and it can be a lot of fun. :)
gavagai
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #91 on: February 21, 2009, 01:10:46 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 10:41:25 AM by Skuzzy »
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #92 on: February 21, 2009, 01:20:31 PM »
HT/Pyro has given the F3 view (or its equivalent) to all bombers since their earliest versions of Warbirds.  Back then you had auto-gunners that could target multiple bandits with good accuracy, and they still gave you the God's eye view...but you could not occupy the gun position yourself, so the God's eye view was the only way to see the action.

That is the origin of the F3 view.  It was included in their earlier sim when you could not view outside the aircraft from the gunner positions, and it has been retained despite all the new innovations with the same explanation that they used in 1995.
gavagai
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Offline Larry

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #93 on: February 21, 2009, 01:24:31 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 10:42:29 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #94 on: February 21, 2009, 03:06:41 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 10:42:49 AM by Skuzzy »
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline skullman

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #95 on: February 21, 2009, 03:19:30 PM »
I have yet to see one dropping eggs.It is always as a ground strafing  machine-I like the idea of the rear gunner view like the 110 or tbd-You can protect yourself with the rear gun-I have even shot down planes with rear gun.I have found for bombers it is best to have a escort.
been there destroyed that

Offline morfiend

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #96 on: February 21, 2009, 03:54:07 PM »
It's already been said,disallow firing of guns and ords from F3.

  :noid

Offline E25280

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #97 on: February 21, 2009, 04:22:16 PM »
As far as the "bomber"' classification goes... ever think it is classified incorrectly, it did go through a series of changes (from 6 to 4 bombs and less bomb options, addition of 37mm guns, remodel, etc)?  If you or anyone else thinks the IL-2 should have the F3 view simply for having a "bomber" classification when there are other planes that do exactly as it does (dive bomb [no level bomb sight], attack gv's, has rear gunner, etc), how consistant is that?  Classify based on a single set of parameters and apply it to all.  Matter of fact, Larry, please tell me and ther others as to how the IL-2 is different, in performance, to the 110, Mossie, A20, or any other dive bomber/attack plane.  Seriously.  Back up your statements.

You mean besides being slower and less agile?  There's a lot of room for interpretation in your request.  But here is a stab . . .

Not sure why you think a bomber classificiation is inaccurate for the IL-2.  It was always supposed to be a ground-target strike aircraft, which is generally what a bomber does.  It's classification as a bomber is therefore completely accurate.

The A-20 was always a light bomber as well.  It was designed to be used as a light bomber, was employed as a light bomber, and evolved from a more or less level-bomb role (as our Bostons do) to a very effective strafer attack platform.

The 110, by comparison, was a "heavy fighter", was always considered a fighter, and, although occasionally employed in an attack role, retained it's fighter status by becoming primarily a night-fighter/interceptor.

You want one that is mis-classified, it would be the Mossie.  It was designed to be an unarmed, but fast-thus-uninterceptable light bomber.  I can only assume it gets its fighter classification because the version HTC decided to give us is the night-fighter/interceptor version, as evidenced by the slower speed due to the exhaust covers (do a search and see the complaints); or perhaps because it didn't have a rear-facing gun position, as the more "traditional" bombers do.  Thus an F3 view for the Mossie would not be logical in any event, and since F3 view is likely tied to that "bomber" button, the Fighter classification is understandable even if not entirely consistent.


These f3-enabled planes are already at a large disadvantage vs. true fighters.  F3 view slightly levels the playing field, but they are still very disadvantaged.  F3 is a modest concession to prevent the disadvantage already experienced by these planes from becoming catastrophic.  I suppose the true goal of the complaint is to relegate them to hanger-queen status, but I don't see how that would be good for the game.
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Offline shreck

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #98 on: February 21, 2009, 04:34:06 PM »
I like the, (If it has F6 bombsite) then it can have F3 view--> Otherwise, NO  :aok  This would work nicely

Offline shreck

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #99 on: February 21, 2009, 04:38:18 PM »

These f3-enabled planes are already at a large disadvantage vs. true fighters.  F3 view slightly levels the playing field, but they are still very disadvantaged.  F3 is a modest concession to prevent the disadvantage already experienced by these planes from becoming catastrophic.  I suppose the true goal of the complaint is to relegate them to hanger-queen status, but I don't see how that would be good for the game.

 :rofl :rofl Why on earth is leveling the playing field tween  these planes so importent? It wasn't level in R/L  I bet the IL2 pilots in russia would have been in favor of better visibility while the Blond Knight was around :aok But I don't believe Russia had quite developed F3 mode yet!! Maybe they have it now :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The russian IL2 drivers rarely altered course even when under attack, as most hvys of the day relied on their defensive armament to protect them, Not flailing about like wounded carp.  F3 really is for gay twittleberries!

If you want a level playng field up a fighter!!---> easy as that!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 04:42:48 PM by shreck »

Offline E25280

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #100 on: February 21, 2009, 04:47:04 PM »
:rofl :rofl Why on earth is leveling the playing field tween  these planes so importent? It wasn't level in R/L  I bet the IL2 pilots in russia would have been in favor of better visibility while the Blond Knight was around :aok But I don't believe Russia had quite developed F3 mode yet!! Maybe they have it now :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Yes, I wasn't clear, thanks for pointing it out.

As has been stated by many in this thread already, the planes in question had crew members to mitigate the rearward near-blindness experienced by the pilot.  The F3 view is a modest concession to attempt to compensate.  Is it better than what the pilots had in real life?  Sure.  But the alternative is to make it worse for these aircraft than it was in real life. 

Given the two options (better SA than actual or worse SA than actual), and given the already-disadvantaged status of these aircraft due to raw performance, erring on the side of better SA is the better option IMO.  Others would prefer to take an already disadvantaged plane and handicap it further.  I see no benefit in doing that.
Brauno in a past life, followed by LTARget
SWtarget in current incarnation
Captain and Communications Officer~125th Spartans

"Proudly drawing fire so that my brothers may pass unharmed."

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #101 on: February 21, 2009, 05:09:27 PM »
Yes, I wasn't clear, thanks for pointing it out.

As has been stated by many in this thread already, the planes in question had crew members to mitigate the rearward near-blindness experienced by the pilot.  The F3 view is a modest concession to attempt to compensate.  Is it better than what the pilots had in real life?  Sure.  But the alternative is to make it worse for these aircraft than it was in real life. 

I disagree that the alternative is to make it worse than it was in real life.  See my proposal above and let me know your opinion.  Thanks!
gavagai
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Offline shreck

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #102 on: February 21, 2009, 06:01:17 PM »



I know, how bout we put the DB605A in the zeke! This would level the playing field a bit  :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Oh and please take more of my earned money and give it to those who don't work, just to level the playing field  :aok

Things are NOT level and fair for a reason!!

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #103 on: February 21, 2009, 06:35:35 PM »
This is a sim.  If the aircraft didnt have it in the read deal then why allow it to have it for the AH2 sim ESPECIALLY is accuracy is the name of the game?  The IL-2 and a few other aircraft are being graced with a luxury they did not have in WWII.

Regarding classification of the IL-2: the "bombing" part can be divided up 2 ways.  Level bombing and dive bombing.  The IL-2 does nothing different than the Mossie, Bf110, D3A, SBD, etc.  It needs to dive in order to attack.  It is a direct fire attack aircraft, it doesnt level bomb from afar.  Debate all one wants, but the IL-2 is not a level bomber.  The IL-2 is an attack aircraft in the most purest form.  One could debate the A20 is such as well since it is a "nose on target" aircraft too.



 
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Larry

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Re: Disable F3 view
« Reply #104 on: February 21, 2009, 07:01:17 PM »
This is a sim.  If the aircraft didnt have it in the read deal then why allow it to have it for the AH2 sim ESPECIALLY is accuracy is the name of the game?  The IL-2 and a few other aircraft are being graced with a luxury they did not have in WWII.

Regarding classification of the IL-2: the "bombing" part can be divided up 2 ways.  Level bombing and dive bombing.  The IL-2 does nothing different than the Mossie, Bf110, D3A, SBD, etc.  It needs to dive in order to attack.  It is a direct fire attack aircraft, it doesnt level bomb from afar.  Debate all one wants, but the IL-2 is not a level bomber.  The IL-2 is an attack aircraft in the most purest form.  One could debate the A20 is such as well since it is a "nose on target" aircraft too.


 :rolleyes:
Once known as ''TrueKill''.
JG 54 "Grünherz"
July '18 KOTH Winner