Author Topic: Perceptions of fight quality  (Read 5424 times)

Offline Kweassa

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6425
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2009, 02:18:36 PM »
Blaming individuals in the manner that pits the "old guard" against the "new generation" is neither constructive, nor even accurate, in trying to understand what's happening in the MA. The reason why many of my own posts are often furiously aimed against the "vet" class of players is specifically because of such intolerance and (rather ill-mannered) misunderstanding coming from the old timers of AH - which is often fueled by distasteful hypocrisy and blatant contempt against what is now a very large player base which easily overshadows the pitiful few numbers of "vets". Instead of trying to understand and observe why the MA has changed so drastically over the years, people simply find a scapegoat and "blame it on the new guy".

Ofcourse, such emotional responses are not necessarily hard to understand. Not everyone can see and accept change at a face value. Although the "vets" still retain a hefty amount of influence in these boards, in the MA their influence is next to non-existant. The style and attitude towards aerial combat which they've enjoyed for so long, just cannot compete against the full-fledged war that is now brewing everyday in the MA. It's not hard to imagine such frustration can easily take note of the 'new guy' and make him a scapegoat. Afterall, that's the basic social psychology behind xenophpbia. Something goes wrong in one's own turf, then start blaming the foreigners.

However, in a general perspective, people have always been familiar with the term, "it's their 15 bucks". As a matter of fact, the "vets" themselves have come up with such care-free and tolerant attitude long before the "Exodus" (events referring to the downfall of AW and WB, which lead to a dramatic increase in AH population), and launching of AH2. Therefore, how the players choose to fly and fight in the MA should pretty much belongs to their own. So what's with all the criticism going around?

For one thing, the overall growth of MA population, and new additions to the game throughout the years, has allowed the three factions of MA to really start up a warring environment. How AH started out, or what AH professed to be millions of years ago, is completely irrelevant a matter in this perspective. The only important fact is that now, the MA is a hands-down wargame in which people compete and fight against "the other country" using vintage WW2-era aircraft and vehicles, and the majority of people fight in the MA for a very different reason than what the "vets" used to fight for. "Fun" is a relative concept.

The problem is, the old "vet" crowds should have a say in this, too. Although they are an ever-shrinking minority nowadays, it shouldn't be impossible for them to find some fun in the MA, nor should they be left out of the game. But such things are happening, and the frustrations and anger coming from such reality makes them lash out towards other people who are just trying to have fun. Why is this happeneing?

 ...


Well, I blame the "why" on HTC.

When the MA first started out, it wasn't exactly an exact science as to how the basic strat system was laid out. The goal of the game was to enjoy aerial combat in WW2 vintage aircraft, and all the rest was basically nothing much more than a mere facade, a colorful gimmick which people could use to add some different flavors to the aerial combat they enjoyed so much. However, as the years went on, AH grew into a larger game. With growing population, each of the three factions in the game could now put up regular numbers of pilots in the air for almost 24-hours straight, regardless of the time zone. More vehicles and aircraft were added in, which strengthened the level of detail in depicting WW2-era combat in the air, land, and sea.

In theory, the game should be getting more fun, now that its starting to look more and more like WW2. So why's it going downhill for the "vets"?


This problem stems up from a classic case of over competition in an environment which lacks structure.

Way back, when we had less than 200 people online, typically around maybe 150 or so in US time zones, and less than 100 in pacific time zones, everyone knew everyone else. Since there was never really a "war" going on, not only did people have the leisure to enjoy fights as they wished, but also the fights itself were much less hectic. It wasn't all that too difficult to survive when there were perhaps maybe five or six people at most in the area. People had the time to try practice, try stuff, and it wasn't an all too distasteful experience to be shot down a couple of times in the process. However, once the war machine started grinding, the purpose of the game shifted to the land-grab. Winning the war was the given objective, and people became a lot more determined in what they do. This sense of purpose gives the people a specific goal, a visible challenge which they can set their minds to, and the "challenge", is now not in winning in the air as an individual fighter pilot, but as an aerial power which operates at a more tactical and strategic level. The overall increase in population means that there are now a lot more enemies flying around in areas if engagement, and none of them are willing to cut you some slack. In short, its a lot harder for new players to survive now.

This explains the tendency of newer generations of AH players to stick to "uber" rides. They need to survive in the air to have some fun in the first place. This is also why the "horde" mentality surfaces - securing a numbers advantage against the enemy is the easiest and  most primitive form of tactics in the field, and yet brutally effective. Newbies nowadays don't have the time and leisure to stay and fight with a vet. Like mentioned their sense of fun comes from fullfilling a given objective. Contributing for their faction in game, and being a part of something.


The problem is, despite all these changes, the basic structure of the game has remained virtually unchanged since 1999. As a matter of fact there is no 'structure' at all. In a real war, the effects of military structure, chain of command, economy and attrition all prohibit an individual soldier to act out on his own. Battle plans are carefully laid out, and order is observed and enforced. However, despite all the new additions to the game, such as towns and ports and etc.., the MA is essentially a large-scale form of fighting close to a team-based FFA(Free-for-All) where anyone can do anything they want without an existing military order which limits them. So, imagine what a newbie who first enters the MA would do when he sees that their are some 20~30 planes flying around at a given location in the map.

He looks for friends.

He tags along, and sticks within the group. The larger the group becomes, the higher the chance of survival. Especially when flying in a uberplane. Likewise, if the pilots on other side notice that the enemy group is becoming larger and stronger, he simply chooses to avoid the fight, and move to a location where the odds are better.

"It's their 15 bucks"

They take the most natural, simplest, and easiest way to gaining victories and fullfilling goals in the game - regardless of whether or not such attitudes in the MA can ruin the quality of the game itself.... and there's nothing anyone can do about it because, the MA is essentially a structureless FFA. Everything is upto the players, and the players can do everything - including, ruining the quality of the game for themselves.

And whose fault is that? Cetainly not the new guys. They're just playing how the game needs to be played.


If anyone is to blame, its HTC.


Offline CHAPPY

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 855
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2009, 02:25:50 PM »
ROX whats you opinion on this subject? :O

Offline Oldman731

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9418
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2009, 02:29:17 PM »
So, imagine what a newbie who first enters the MA would do when he sees that their are some 20~30 planes flying around at a given location in the map.

He looks for friends.

He tags along, and sticks within the group. The larger the group becomes, the higher the chance of survival. Especially when flying in a uberplane. Likewise, if the pilots on other side notice that the enemy group is becoming larger and stronger, he simply chooses to avoid the fight, and move to a location where the odds are better.

"It's their 15 bucks"

They take the most natural, simplest, and easiest way to gaining victories and fullfilling goals in the game

Kweassa, you're harder on the new folks than the "vets" you're complaining about.  When you started playing, did you tag along, stick with the group, fly an uberplane and avoid disadvantaged fights?

Didn't think so.  And I'm not inclined to believe that the new folks, as a class, have suddenly become a craven mass.  If there were no war to win, they'd be flying and fighting the same as we did a dozen years ago.

- oldman

Offline Stang

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6121
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2009, 02:31:43 PM »
ROX whats you opinion on this subject? :O
How would he know?  He's never actually fought anyone in the game.

Offline uptown

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8566
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2009, 02:41:45 PM »
I'm going to make a drink.................. :rolleyes:
Lighten up Francis

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16333
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2009, 02:44:07 PM »
Didn't think so.  And I'm not inclined to believe that the new folks, as a class, have suddenly become a craven mass.  If there were no war to win, they'd be flying and fighting the same as we did a dozen years ago.

- oldman
Check out the DA's furball lake to see for yourself.

And while there are some things HTC could have done, I have to disagree that it all boils down to being their fault.  If it's their fault that the tools they laid out for players to have fun with were abused, it's also their fault that the game is so much damn fun and addictive, and the latter "fault" pretty much nullifies the former.  As far as "blame" goes.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 02:47:08 PM by moot »
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline grizz441

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7000
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2009, 02:52:53 PM »
I think it's ridiculous how a habitual runner, hoarder, advantage flyin dweeb will cast stones at somebody who typically fights by pointing out instances where that player chose to run or what not.  For example and for simplistic's sake:

Player A:
Fights: 95% of the time
Runs: 5% of the time

Player B:
Fights: 50% of the time
Runs: 50% of the time

Say Player A calls out Player B for flying like a tard in general.  5 Days later, Player B happens to see Player A running from 3 on the deck and says something to the effect of "SEE, YOU RUN TOO HERO".   :rolleyes:

Player B now feels good about his style of gameplay because he has just convinced himself that the high horse players that talk about fighting in the game run themselves!  It's bs.

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17921
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2009, 03:01:22 PM »
Wow, that quote could very well be applied to the guys who fly P-51s , 190s , Tempests, C-hogs, spawn campers, etc etc.

As a matter of fact, I think it could be applied to the latter even more so.

All ya gotta do is look around, that statement could be applied to alot of situations with the same frequency that is used against "landgrabbers".

But a few guys in here keep throwing the "landgrabbers" to the lions, forgeting to look around a little more before pigeon holing one type of play as "avoiding" fights.

I agree, and I mention that later on with the comments on the fight I had. As I said, we can keep the "names" out of this. Its NOT about furballers, its NOT about landgrabbers, and its NOT about vets vs newbies either. Its about this community pulling together and doing their part to make it fun for each other, in stead of trying to kill the fun just for the heck of it. 

Offline Anaxogoras

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7072
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2009, 03:13:30 PM »
 :rofl  I'm glad to see absolutely no one shares my perspective on this issue. :rofl
gavagai
334th FS


RPS for Aces High!

Offline Chalenge

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15179
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2009, 03:14:33 PM »
The people complaining find fun in complaining I think.  :rolleyes:

I mean if they were so good at 'fighting' then they could kill even from a disadvantage and would have no need to complain. Right? Thats what I thought.
If you like the Sick Puppy Custom Sound Pack the please consider contributing for future updates by sending a months dues to Hitech Creations for account "Chalenge." Every little bit helps.

Offline waystin2

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10165
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2009, 03:16:37 PM »
:rofl  I'm glad to see absolutely no one shares my perspective on this issue. :rofl

I think you would be surprised how many do Sir.

<Salute>

Way

CO for the Pigs On The Wing
& The nicest guy in Aces High!

Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27070
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2009, 03:19:23 PM »
You know a third LW arena might not be a bad idea as long as it isnt even harder for our squad to get together. The squad is the thing I think.  :aok

There are 4 now.
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline killnu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3056
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2009, 03:27:02 PM »
perception is a funny thing...the base is in the lower left corner of your picture showing "all" those guys that were on just one...how many were just taking off and not actually involved with the one you speak of?  Was that one just the last remaining one from 4-5 that were there? I know the enemy base was to the right of your picture. 
Karma, it follows you every where you go...

++The Blue Knights++

Offline caldera

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6437
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2009, 03:33:26 PM »
Despite finding something to complain about almost every day, we all keep logging on. 
"Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the gate:
 To every man upon this earth, death cometh soon or late.
 And how can man die better, than facing fearful odds.
 For the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods."

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Re: Perceptions of fight quality
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2009, 03:38:09 PM »
perception is a funny thing...the base is in the lower left corner of your picture showing "all" those guys that were on just one...how many were just taking off and not actually involved with the one you speak of?  Was that one just the last remaining one from 4-5 that were there? I know the enemy base was to the right of your picture. 
:rofl hence.....no film. :aok
See Rule #4