Me 210/410

[FTJR]

That is all I need, Kazaa and Moot in 410's..

[moot]

quick & dirty speed chart in context

The 110's in standard black and red.  The 410's mil and wep are pretty much guessed.  But that should be the ballpark.

[Krusty]

the 410 has almost identical weight loading, hp loading, to the p-38, so even though it's slower (draggier) I'd expect it to at least be somewhat capable as a fighter.

[Ack-Ack]

Would anyone happen to know how well the ME410 would do in A2A engagements?

What would it’s best quality happen to be in that regard?

Like the 110 and the 210, would be outclassed by the majority of single engine fighters we have in the game.


ack-ack

[moot]

I'm doing the math with the bits of info I have, and it looks like it might be as porky as the 110.  The powerloading on anything heavier than a MG131+MG151 equipped 410 is about as bad as the 110, and the wingloading is up there with the P38, which is pretty bad if you imagine a P38 with no counter-props and slotted flaps.

[Krusty]

You want pork, try flying a 190 in a dogfight!

Doesn't matter how "bad" it is, it'll still be "great"! 

[moot]

These are the weights worked out from AH and historical docs.  "Empty" weights are for a plane with no fuel and basic guns but no ammo and no ordnance.  "Dogfight" is weight with 25 or 50% fuel (all planes carrying about the same fuel-time), light guns and enough ammo to make ~ half a dozen A2A kills, provided you don't miss.  E.G. the Mossie with ~1000 .303 rounds and something like 400 20mm rounds, or the 410's 6x20 with only 175 rpg.  The BK5 loadout isn't what you'd dogfight with, but it's there for perspective anyway.  The 410 figures are optimistic: there will be more weight added for gun-carrying structures.

[Krusty]

That can't be right.... 700 rds of MG151/20 doesn't equate to 700lbs...

In AH right now:

1x 20mm round = 0.486 lbs (times 700 rds = 340.2 lbs)
1x 30mm round = 1.3 lbs
1x 13mm round = 0.18 lbs (times 1200 rds = 96 lbs)

So the A-1 would have 436lbs, not 700lbs extra weight.
The 6-20mm version would have 972lbs.

Unless I'm missing something else, where's the extra weight from?

[moot]

700 odd pounds are the guns+ammo.  I removed guns, ammo, and fuel from a basic 410A, and then added 25% fuel (444kg) and the different gun loadouts + their ammo.

2xMG131+ammo+2xMG151+ammo=
74.8   195.36   184.8   298.76   = 753.72
6xMG151+2000 rounds=
554.4   853.6   = 1408

The figure that bothers me is the 410 weighing in at just about the same as a 110 in disarmed trim.

[Boozeman]

Moot, where do you have the 410 numbers for the speed vs. alt chart from?

[moot]

This doc. Page 10. 
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3555/3663936022_25bc3826a3_o.png
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3657/3663133099_da75313712_o.png
What I labeled as MIL is for a 9.5 ton Me410 at 1.3ata and 2500rpm.  The line labeled wep is a curve made from three points listed as top speed from Warplanes of the Luftwaffe.  315@SL, 388@22kft, 373@26kft.

Do you have better info?

[Krusty]

The 110G has, what? 1350hp per engine? The 410 has almost 1800hp per engine. That's similar weights, but going from 2700hp total to 3600hp... I'd say that alone will make up for the weight.

As you show the MOSS and 110G have similar empty weights, but can still be jinked around the sky on occasion. I don't think anybody's going to say it'll compete with a spit16 (but then 90% of the planes in this game can't anyways), but it'll give US rides a run for their money, and maybe some other nations as well.

[moot]

Like the 110 and the 210, would be outclassed by the majority of single engine fighters we have in the game.


ack-ack

AKAK, would you say the same for the Mossie?

[Boozeman]

This doc. Page 10. 
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3555/3663936022_25bc3826a3_o.png
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3657/3663133099_da75313712_o.png
What I labeled as MIL is for a 9.5 ton Me410 at 1.3ata and 2500rpm.  The line labeled wep is a curve made from three points listed as top speed from Warplanes of the Luftwaffe.  315@SL, 388@22kft, 373@26kft.

Do you have better info?

Thanks! Do you have the complete document? like Points 12 and 13 on the 2nd pic?

P.S.
No, I have no infos at all, unfortunately. 

[moot]

Yes, here.