Author Topic: Me 210/410  (Read 10106 times)

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16330
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: Me 210/410
« Reply #75 on: April 12, 2009, 07:39:35 PM »
The hardpoints limit thing is kinda hard to figure out.  As far as what it is exactly, it's definitely not the max number of combinations, because the 47N has 4x6x5 possible combos. Not the number of objects either, because the Ju88 has 20 in a single bombload option. It might simply be the number of options you can click on/display in the hangar, because at a glance the highest I see is 15 options on e.g. the P47N.  There'd be much more than that with one 410 model, if we wanted to have as many gun options as possible.  Quick a dirty simulation of the 410B in AH's hangar is something like this, ignoring the bomb options in the bomb bay for now..

Ordered by firepower.

Since the A model never had the B's large choice of guns, it might make sense to, in a hypothetical AH, give the A all the bomb options that wouldn't fit with the B (which is pretty much everything except the vanilla B1). The A model reportedly could carry all of these:

It's not clear if any of those bombs went on the wingroot racks you can see at the top right in this pic:

Working it out so that the 410A would have as many of these bombs while leaving as many gun loadout options as possible could look like this:

Which covers all the bombs and gun options in 6 choices, which is convenient because that's exactly how many you can fit in one AH hangar column. It also gives an option for nothing but a BK5, which might be worth it for the weight saved:   The BK5 is ~1000lbs without its ammo, a pair of MK103 (410B-2/U4) and their ammo weigh ~1000lbs, and a pair of MG151s and MG17s and their ammo add up to a little over 600lbs.  That's the difference between the two choices at the bottom of the above pic.

Everything else - the drop tanks, WGr21 rockets, and 4x50kg bombs - goes on the wings, so there's no conflicts there.  All of these guns, ordnance, and everything else together add up to about 10 options, so there's no risk of breaking the 16 option limit.

So that answers your question Karnak  :lol  This is with just a generic A and B model.  If HTC just make duplicate models to "create" Me410A-x and Me410B-x variants (like we have for the 109Gs), there doesn't seem to be anywhere near as much complexity to figure out for each model.  There's no apparent differences between the A and B in the literature, so in the game the differences between the A and B variants would only be the guns.  So maybe HTC could just call em 410A and 410B.  The only benefit in making different A1, A2, B1, B2 models would be historical accuracy (hair splitting in this case), and 30 more skin slots. There's already 30 of em with a generic 410A and 410B.

There were also some other loadouts on the B5, which I'm not sure whether it was more than an experimental model:
  • 2 BT 400 bomb-torpedoes
  • (up to) 6 BT 200 bomb-torpedoes missiles
  • 1 SC 1800 bomb
  • 1 LT 5b torpedo or 1 LT 5i torpedo
Were also tested on the B5:
  • SB 800 RS (rolling bomb)
  • SB 1000/410 low drag bomb
  • L 10 (LT 950) gliding torpedo
The B2/U3 also carried a single torpedo along with a pair of MK103 and a radar in place of the nose MGs. That one was certainly operational.

Apparently the A2 was cancelled because the MK103 wasn't ready.  Not sure if that means the single BK5 armament (A2/U4) as well.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 09:43:11 PM by moot »
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline Gianlupo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5154
Re: Me 210/410
« Reply #76 on: April 13, 2009, 05:20:41 AM »
You mean B2/U1?  (edit- looks like there's some inconsistencies) That's the one the refs I have say have a 2x20 behind the bay.  One way to rule out this combo would be to see the blueprints for each.  If there's no way to fit those two configurations together (e.g. the 4x20 in the bay blocking the rear 2x20's barrels), it leaves a pair of MG151s mounted in the nose next to the normal ones, instead of the MG17s.  Otherwise they custom fabricated it and that definitely wouldn't work with HTC's criteria.  Too bad there's no picture, it'd make it easier than just guessing.

And the 410B's factory packages (e.g. B2/U1 and B2/U2/R5) definitely were available since this was in early-mid 44, so that can't be ruled out either.
Grazie :)

You're welcome! :) Anyway, regardless of how those guns on Dassow's plane were mounted, I highly doubt such combo could make it in the game, since it was the only plane modified.

As for the bomb racks under wings, they should be for 50kg bombs only, but I'm not putting my hand on a fire for this....
Live to fly, fly to live!

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23870
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: Me 210/410
« Reply #77 on: April 13, 2009, 05:42:47 AM »
As for the bomb racks under wings, they should be for 50kg bombs only, but I'm not putting my hand on a fire for this....

Your hand won't be burned in this case ;)
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Gianlupo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5154
Re: Me 210/410
« Reply #78 on: April 13, 2009, 12:29:15 PM »
Phew! :D
Live to fly, fly to live!

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16330
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: Me 210/410
« Reply #79 on: April 13, 2009, 12:41:36 PM »
I haven't found a full three view-type drawing yet, so maybe those racks for the 4x50kg were set one pair at the wingroot, and another further out. It says 6 ETC at the bottom of that German document, but that could be just in the A-3's case.
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline waystin2

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10115
Re: Me 210/410
« Reply #80 on: April 13, 2009, 01:54:59 PM »
I think the 410 would be a good add to the inventory.
CO for the Pigs On The Wing
& The nicest guy in Aces High!

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16330
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: Me 210/410
« Reply #81 on: April 14, 2009, 12:23:12 AM »
At 2:38 in this video, you can see 4 ETC racks under the wingroots.  So that's probably where the 50kg bombs went. One less mystery.
Is the bomb bay see-through like that, from the factory?  Anyone know?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 12:37:46 AM by moot »
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline morfiend

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10400
Re: Me 210/410
« Reply #82 on: April 14, 2009, 03:47:14 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSrIn84Q8LM   heres a good look at some zetstorers

Offline bongaroo

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1822
Re: Me 210/410
« Reply #83 on: April 14, 2009, 04:12:57 PM »
Thanks for that link.  Was interesting to watch.
Callsign: Bongaroo
Formerly: 420ace


Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16330
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: Me 210/410
« Reply #84 on: April 14, 2009, 04:35:47 PM »
There's more of those on youtube...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waUPuAvZjwo A modern mockup of LW mechanics checking out a static Me410.  A good look at the shape of the leading edge slats. They're pretty long on the top end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk4Aiscs3jM vintage footage, including a visual of the trailing radiator flaps matching the flaps' motion.  Also in this one (IIRC) a good look at the flaps' shape.  They almost look like slotted flaps.  I've never seen real 109s' flaps in video, but someone who has could say whether the 410's are the same and so whether they're plain or slotted type.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zvkbIJWSRI   A composite of these various vids, with maybe a couple of other quick segments.
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline Dan216TH

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 87
Re: Me 210/410
« Reply #85 on: April 20, 2009, 06:37:42 PM »
^^^^

Offline morfiend

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10400
Re: Me 210/410
« Reply #86 on: April 21, 2009, 11:14:32 AM »
The B2/U3 also carried a single torpedo along with a pair of MK103 and a radar in place of the nose MGs. That one was certainly operational.


Yes the B2 was operational but I havent been able to find a single source of the use of the torp.I thought maybe in the black sea as they patroled there and were credited with several ships but no mention was made of a torp being used.Again I think it was desperation on the LW's part and can be safely set into the realm of the torp carrying 190's,great idea but never used in combat.
I believe that by this time airbourne torps were an outdated idea,why use 1 when stand off weapons were being developed.... as in the Fritz....

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16330
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: Me 210/410
« Reply #87 on: April 21, 2009, 12:05:42 PM »
Hey... Maybe when HTC models and adds the Me410, they can add this -U1 Rutzatze (sp?) :

 :D
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline trax1

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3973
Re: Me 210/410
« Reply #88 on: April 21, 2009, 12:09:49 PM »
We could of had the 410 by now if people would have voted for it instead of the B25, I voted for the 410, I've been wanting that plane for awhile, right now the 110 is by far my favorite German plane, and I'm sure the 410 would be even better.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Offline Die Hard

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi