Me 210/410

[Krusty]

HTC doesn't "do" field mods. We'd get one with the tail guns. I'd probably never use 'em, myself.

[Motherland]

Iunno, I think considering they're MG131's it could be useful to have someone gun for you.

[moot]

HTC doesn't "do" field mods. We'd get one with the tail guns. I'd probably never use 'em, myself.

I'll still make a case for it.. The paddle blade props for the 47s weren't field mods were they?  Many of the things we have in the game aren't authentic.. not just stuff like changes for standardization like no tinted gunsight reticles on luftwaffe stuff, but e.g. being able to take DTs without filled internal tanks.  That's the player's prerogative.. I think this is the same. It's not a mod that adds anything novel, it's just a substraction. Seems less "custom" than e.g. the canopy cfg on the 109s. Unless I'm wrong on that one and those were totally factory decisions independent of pilot feedback.
On the other hand, HTC seem to have ignored for some reason (maybe a totally valid one, not saying otherwise) that e.g. the 190A5 could have the cowl MGs removed.  It's too bad, I can't think of any reason to not give players that kind of freedom, for such a low coding cost. When e.g. the P47s have so many options, or some 109s have an option for a difference of something like just 50 rounds of 20mm.

[Cthulhu]

M00t, any of that info useful?

[moot]

Yeah it's sitting in a browser tab while I add it to my notes and come up with another questionnaire :P
I have some other info gratefully shared by Scherf that gives a good perspective on what the 410 would be like in AH, that I have to crunch down before posting.
I still have to figure out how the guns all fit in there, instead of just taking for granted the configurations quoted on websites and books.

[Gianlupo]

The A looks like it could have all its options fit in the hangar.. That's a good point.  It would most likely ease the load off the B's loadout options, too.That's the one.. There was a comment about the guys in the report that made it sound like the configuration was considered "excessive".  Dassow died in late summer of 44, so that's a rough ballpark timeframe for the mod. Somewhere between early 44 and late August 44.  Actually, no later than sometime in July because ZG26 was disbanded in late July.

It was in March 1944, when the II Gruppe was re-equipped with 410A-1/U4 (it wasn't a B, I was mistaken): Dassow didn't like the 50mm and asked to be allowed to mount 8 MG151/20. So, I guess it operated in Spring-Summer 1944.

PS: I'm glad to see all this interest in the Me410,it's a muderous machine...

It's a sexy one... I hope we'll get it soon!

EDIT: Moot, if you're looking for the gun configurations, I have the Squadron Signal book about the 410, I'll post some drawing... tomorrow, it's too late now!

[Cthulhu]

Yeah it's sitting in a browser tab while I add it to my notes and come up with another questionnaire
I have some other info gratefully shared by Scherf that gives a good perspective on what the 410 would be like in AH, that I have to crunch down before posting.
I still have to figure out how the guns all fit in there, instead of just taking for granted the configurations quoted on websites and books.

If you're really nice, I'll post up a diagram from the book which shows all the different gun locations.

[moot]

Hehe. I have a couple of diagrams already, but if you have a definitive one that illustrates e.g. what cfg excluded what other cfg, that'd be great

It was in March 1944, when the II Gruppe was re-equipped with 410A-1/U4 (it wasn't a B, I was mistaken): Dassow didn't like the 50mm and asked to be allowed to mount 8 MG151/20. So, I guess it operated in Spring-Summer 1944.

Thank you.  Did it detail how they stuck the 8 guns in there?  Two in the nose, 4 in the bay, and the 2 gun pack behind the bay?

[Cthulhu]

Hehe. I have a couple of diagrams already, but if you have a definitive one that illustrates e.g. what cfg excluded what other cfg, that'd be great
Thank you.

Depends.... now about that sugar

[Gianlupo]

Hehe. I have a couple of diagrams already, but if you have a definitive one that illustrates e.g. what cfg excluded what other cfg, that'd be great
Thank you.  Did it detail how they stuck the 8 guns in there?  Two in the nose, 4 in the bay, and the 2 gun pack behind the bay?

Nope, the book doesn't detail it, but my guess is the same as yours, a combination of U2/R4 and U2/R5 configs; the only other viable option, I think, was to put 2 of the cannons in wing roots... looking at the drawings, I don't know if you could put the 2 gun pack behind the bomb bay with the shell ejection ports right in front of it.

EDIT: As promised, here's a collage of drawings from the Squadron Signal book with some of the weapons configurations:





Happy Easter!

[moot]

You mean B2/U1?  (edit- looks like there's some inconsistencies) That's the one the refs I have say have a 2x20 behind the bay.  One way to rule out this combo would be to see the blueprints for each.  If there's no way to fit those two configurations together (e.g. the 4x20 in the bay blocking the rear 2x20's barrels), it leaves a pair of MG151s mounted in the nose next to the normal ones, instead of the MG17s.  Otherwise they custom fabricated it and that definitely wouldn't work with HTC's criteria.  Too bad there's no picture, it'd make it easier than just guessing.

And the 410B's factory packages (e.g. B2/U1 and B2/U2/R5) definitely were available since this was in early-mid 44, so that can't be ruled out either.

EDIT: As promised, here's a collage of drawings from the Squadron Signal book with some of the weapons configurations:

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

Happy Easter!

Grazie

[Krusty]

As you know, Moot, some upgrades became factory and depot-level standards. Certain changes were "standard" ones. On the other hand, pilots just chucking gear off a plane in the hope of making it fly better, is what HTC does not cater to. VVS pilots hacking metal panels off of their IL2s and sticking a guy in the open hole with a tail gun is a field mod. Swapping out hurr1 guns for 2x20mm in VVS hurricanes is a field mod. Removing standardized parts from a plane because a small number of pilots want the cowl guns removed is a field mod.

However, the 190Gs had the cowl guns removed as a standard, but this was to counteract the weight of flying with 2 underwing drop tanks and a centerline bomb. It wasn't for dogfighting considerations.

In a 190A, pulling out the cowl guns saves you very little weight. You save more weight by leaving off the outer guns.

[moot]

The cowl guns removed has a factory package number in "Il2". I don't see what the point is of arguing for cowl or outer guns, when the real choice is removing both.
The rest of my points stand..

[Krusty]

IL2 not exactly the bastion of historical accuracy   

[moot]

No, but then I don't see any reason not to investigate all the not-disproven possibilities that pop up.
That cfg's from 1942 on a 190A-4"/U1".

And the 6x20mm ranks second in max continuous firepower (calculated with tony william's formula), though not in burst firepower.  Then again it's got the largest ROF and would have the full glass cockpit to boot.