Author Topic: Living forever  (Read 3855 times)

Offline sluggish

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #75 on: May 07, 2009, 10:29:00 AM »
I read somewhere that even if people were impervious to sickness and aging, the average person would only live to be about 350 before stepping out in front of a bus or getting in a car crash or something.

Offline Delirium

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #76 on: May 07, 2009, 10:40:13 AM »
I had a patient that told me, "I don't have any fear of death, it is the dying itself I am afraid of."

Sort of echos my sentiment, I'm very curious to see what the after life is like but I'm not in any hurry to hasten the end.

I'm curious to meet people I never met in life, find the answers to all questions, and most of all to see what religion was the right path. I'm of the belief that I will be judged on how I lived my life and not whether I ate fish on Fridays.

edit: I wanted to add one thing, as painful as death can be both emotionally and physically, in some cases death is a beautiful thing and I would hate to see it eliminated.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 10:50:36 AM by Delirium »
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Offline texasmom

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #77 on: May 07, 2009, 11:14:49 AM »
edit: I wanted to add one thing, as painful as death can be both emotionally and physically, in some cases death is a beautiful thing and I would hate to see it eliminated.

The most beautiful acts of love that I've ever seen have almost all been as a result of death.
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Offline Simaril

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #78 on: May 07, 2009, 06:52:37 PM »
DNR all depends on the situation.

Young healthy person codes after a car wreck....Resuscitate away! So much to gain, so little to lose.

Old person with cancer spread all over...shouldn't probably EVER run a code. Odds of getting out of the hospital are pretty much zero even if the code blue "works" and you bring the patient back.
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #79 on: May 08, 2009, 01:12:39 AM »
Hey Dan, I don't mean to pour salt in the wound. But basically you're saying you would be all for it, as far as you're concerned, if they were still here?  You don't really see any reason to be for or against it outside of that concern?

I don't think I would be regardless.  While I struggle with what I believe, I can't help but think there is something beyond this life, and that extending it forever, would somehow interfere with what comes next.

I have nothing to base that on, and as I said I wonder about it, but I haven't found a reason to write it off yet. 

If I didn't believe there was something after this life, I'd be more inclined to support it.
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Offline moot

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #80 on: May 08, 2009, 05:30:05 AM »
Well, like I said, forever was just a convenient way to get the argument rolling. It might as well be forever, compared to lifespans today. It seems likely enough that if we can continuously or permanently un-age ourselves, you could be so lucky as to survive for a very long while.  Whether long enough to see the day or mind uploading or any of that scifi stuff is speculative, but not that far fetched when you consider technological trends.  You would still die from catastrophic injury, etc.  The main point was to hear why people find changing the scale of lifespan by an order of magnitude so incredible or disagreable.  I don't think it would make much difference, and then it'd be almost completely positive.  Whatever comes next would still happen. Your life would be that much fuller and more valuable. Nothing would stop you from eventually deciding to turn aging back on and wither away.
I personally find it contradictive to say life is sacred, and yet forsake opportunity to extend it a couple hundred years.  The universe looks like it will go on for a thousand thousand thousand years yet. Living a thousand years would still be just a drop in the bucket. Living till the universe ends in as much as trillions of years from now would still be nothing compared to eternity, if that's what's beyond. There's no mutual exclusivity between staying alive until the end of the universe and the humility of being just a mere human being living in 3D space during what might be equivalent to one planck time in some greater multiverse scheme of things.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2009, 05:32:50 AM by moot »
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Offline moot

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #81 on: May 08, 2009, 05:52:49 AM »
So there's another reason why "curing" age is a problem.  We haven't shown an inkling of the concern required for the care of our resources that would be required to extend life.
Lab-grown meat, lab-grown x, lab-grown y. etc.  Second, people would be more mindful of their ecological footprint if they had to live longer. 
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Offline Die Hard

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #82 on: May 08, 2009, 06:58:02 AM »
I'm curious to meet people I never met in life, find the answers to all questions, and most of all to see what religion was the right path.

What makes you believe that will happen?
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #83 on: May 08, 2009, 07:40:16 AM »
Lab-grown meat, lab-grown x, lab-grown y. etc.  Second, people would be more mindful of their ecological footprint if they had to live longer. 

You're definitely not a Michel Pollan fan. :lol
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Offline moot

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #84 on: May 08, 2009, 07:51:54 AM »
I'm curious how it makes sense that people having to live longer with any poop they curl where they eat would make them less rather than more environmentally careful. Compared to today's throw-away consuming status quo for "someone else" to later deal with.

As for Pollan. Who cares. Lab-grown meat is just a way to alleviate the pressure on natural sources, e.g. in the third world.  Feed those people so they break thru the floor of poverty and establish proper organic whatever as they wish. Nothing makes synthetic and organic foods mutually exclusive. Lab grown food is a boon for space settlement too.
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Offline Die Hard

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #85 on: May 08, 2009, 07:52:18 AM »
Lab-grown meat, lab-grown x, lab-grown y. etc.  Second, people would be more mindful of their ecological footprint if they had to live longer. 

I don't think so. Most people are very selfish and don't really care about other people's problems.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #86 on: May 08, 2009, 08:00:15 AM »
As for Pollan. Who cares. Lab-grown meat is just a way to alleviate the pressure on natural sources, e.g. in the third world.  Feed those people so they break thru the floor of poverty and establish proper organic whatever as they wish. Nothing makes synthetic and organic foods mutually exclusive. Lab grown food is a boon for space settlement too.

Nothing but the accepted definition of organic.  Anyway, Pollan's arguments about food go way beyond what's organic and what's not, and limiting him to that scope would be an unjust dismissal of what he has to say.  I normally don't like people who tell me how to live my life, but that he prepared a meal for the Omnivores Dilemma where he grew, gathered, or killed all the ingredients himself is just cool. :)  Half the hippies in Berkeley probably hate him for praising the way other cultures consume meat.
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Offline moot

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #87 on: May 08, 2009, 08:10:50 AM »
DH - How does that make your point? Selfishness would give more incentive to keep their environment clean, not less.

Anax, I'm frankly not hot on reading up on that guy or getting caught up in another semantics game. Organic/synthetic, and what Pollan has to say: can give the gist of why it's pertinent and important?
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #88 on: May 08, 2009, 08:51:56 AM »
I'm going to completely fail at giving you an accurate picture of what he says... But the gist might be that, empirically, traditional foods and eating habits are more healthy than the American diet that's based on the industrial food chain.  Traditional foods are not just vegetables grown in real dirt, but also includes things like beef that was grass fed on open range, instead of corn-based feed in an industrial farm.  He criticizes selecting food based on advertised nutritional information, claims of low fat this or that, vitamin-enriched, etc.  Recently he refers to the dominant view of nutrition as "nutritionism," that a healthy diet can be found by analyzing all of the components of what you eat in terms of vitamins, fats, minerals, fiber, etc.  Basically, if it comes in a box with a label that says how good it is for you, don't eat it.

Since you're in a agreement that "curing" death would require scientific advances in food production in order to support the increased population, I thought I'd throw it out there that the scientific advances in food production we already have are partly responsible for the degradation of American diet quality.
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Offline moot

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Re: Living forever
« Reply #89 on: May 08, 2009, 09:03:08 AM »
Yeah american foods are full of appetizers and processed goods are less digestible. The consumer is undescerning and the suppliers capitalize on it. Same as with the media. No accountability for quality because the consumer buys it anyway. I don't see how this means lab grown meat, GMOs, etc wouldn't help with an eventual overpopulation.  If you can't feed your kids, don't have em.  No one's held responsible for your getting pregnant but you.   I don't see how this is exceptional.

I don't agree that no aging would mean a permanent, unregulated growth in population.  The increase in lifespan doesn't look like it's going to be any real surge. It's going to be very gradual.  Plenty of lead time for politicians to get a handle on it.  One thing that's for sure is that people will easily back its mass production with their tax money.  It's not going to be a rich man's luxury for more than a short while.
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