Author Topic: AH Spit IX is too slow! (Read 3509 times)

Nashwan · « **on:** November 17, 2001, 07:56:00 PM »

Just to approach this from a different angle

I wanted to compare the AH Spitfire IX to the real life Spit IX.
The Spit IX came in three basic variants, the F, LF and HF, and with four different engines, Merlin 51, 63, 66 and 70
The first 350 planes were Fs, fitted with the Merlin 61. Then production switched, initially to Fs with 63 (another 1000 built), then the LF an HF with Merlin 66 and 70 respectiely. Fairly small numbers of the HF were built, but well over 3000 LFs.
The first problem is that AH doesn't state which Spit IX, but we can narrow it down by a process of elimination.
The AH Spit has an engine that delivers 18lb of boost. This rules out the Merlin 61 engined F, as it had a max of 15lb boost. All the others had 18lb boost, however.
Secondly, the AH Spit can carry bombs, tanks and rockets. All the Spit IXs could carry a drop tank, but none of the early F series could carry a bomb. I am almost certain the HF aircraft couldn't carry bombs either.
Thirdly the armament. The AH Spit is equipped with the E wing of 2 20mm and 2 50 cal Brownings. This narrows the aircraft down to a late model aircraft, from 1944 on. None of the aircraft being produce then had Merlin 61s.
The bombs, rockets, boost gauge and armament all show the plane isn't an early F IX. The rockets show it isn't an HF. In short, the options on the AH Spit IX show it can only be an LF IX, from 1944 on.

Now that we hae narrowed it down, we can compare performance of the AH Spit with it's real life counterpart.

Speed (in mph) at alt (in feet)
Alt AH IX RL IX RL HF
0 . 321 . 336 331
4K . 340 . 353 348
10k . 365 . 380 373
18K . 378 . 390 394
20K . 385 . 399 392

Above 20K things are almost correct, with the AH Spit being up to 5 mph too fast at around 25K for an LF, but about 5mph too slow for an HF.

Climb (in feet per min) at Altitude (in feet)
Alt AH IX RL IX RL HF
2K . 3750 4640 4470
6k . 3800 4690 4520
10K . 3850 4280 4570
15K . 3500 3860 4030
20K . 3350 3560 3500

Again above 25K the AH Spit is a bit better than RL LF, but not many combats take place up there. Again the RL HF is better than the AH model.

In summary, the Spit IX in AH is about 15mph too slow, and between 300 - 900 ft/min too slow climbing below 20,000ft. Please fix ASAP

R4M · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2001, 08:05:00 PM »

Sorry nashwan but...

1st-post chart

2nd-the spit is a F.IX. And yes,it is porked.

The weapon options in the Spitfire F.IX require fix ASAP. Please remove the 50 cals and make the weapons fit the 1942 plane it is, currently it does have TOO many options for what it had historically

Not only that, but the plane also is faster than what it should be at altitudes over 15k. That should be fixed too.

And finally, please let the fw190A drivers to delete the cowl MGs if they want to. is a not Spit-related issue, but I MUST live up to the LW-hijacking standard so many people think there is in this board

[ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

Nashwan · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2001, 08:11:00 PM »

It can't be a Spit F IX. I can't believe HTC would make that many mistakes in such an important, well documented aircraft, or that they would choose a totaly unrepresentitie early version. After all, they don't do that with Luftwaffe, US, or even Japanese or Russian aircraft.
No, logic dictates that you are wrong, RAM.

R4M · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2001, 08:26:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nashwan:
It can't be a Spit F IX. I can't believe HTC would make that many mistakes in such an important, well documented aircraft, or that they would choose a totaly unrepresentitie early version. After all, they don't do that with Luftwaffe, US, or even Japanese or Russian aircraft.
No, logic dictates that you are wrong, RAM.

Your logic

Pyro has stated several times that the spit in AH is a F.IX

So indeed, it has lots of mistakes. So indeed they need to be fixed. Until then I'll accept your promise that you wont fly it with rockets or 50 cals, and that at high altitude you'll throttle back to keep the speed on wich was historically accurate.

funkedup · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2001, 09:23:00 PM »

Quote

Not only that, but the plane also is faster than what it should be at altitudes over 15k. That should be fixed too.

RAM, how can you say that?

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2001, 09:35:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by funkedup:

RAM, how can you say that?

His Luftwhiner Sense was tingling.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Tac · « **Reply #6 on:** November 17, 2001, 09:42:00 PM »

Hijacking sounds good..

How many tours was it until the 38L got the dive flap option? And guess what, they still dont come anywhere near to what they should do (besides lighting up the little light bulb in cockpit).

WALK THE PLANK MATEY! We got sissyfires to burn! Aye!

Karnak · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2001, 11:57:00 PM »

Nashwan,

Pyro stated specifically that it is a Spitfire F.IX with a Merlin 61 engine.

RAM,

It doesn't seem too fast to me at altitudes above 15,000 ft. Can you post evidence?

I have asked for the Spit IX in AH to be correctly labeled and only allowed the correct options, but I have never gotten a response.

-ammo- · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2001, 12:08:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak:
Nashwan,

Pyro stated specifically that it is a Spitfire F.IX with a Merlin 61 engine.

When and where did he state this?

Seems to me, if anything, the Spit9 has some issues. If it is going to be a "f" model, then it should be modeled that way. But why did HTC give it the options it has? this is unlike them, they model the AC as accurately as possible. If its going to be the LF, then its performance needs to be upped accordingly. This is what I think should happen. In this Late war arena, a non-perked, accurate, spit9 LF is appropriate. From what I have seen here or read elsewhere, the spit XIII is the spit that was real nice..and would be a terror (more so) in the MA enviroment.

V/R

Buzzbait · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2001, 12:33:00 AM »

S!

The plane in AH most closely resembles a Spit IXF, but that plane didn't have .50's.

It was also a small run model as far as Spit IX's are concerned.

I would have to go through all the serials to be sure, but the Spit IX LF was close to 65% of the total Spit IX's produced. It would be much more representative of the historical aircraft available, especially since the arena is filled with '44 and '45 planes.

However I can understand the reasons why the Spit IX LF is not modelled here:

With the furball style of action we have in AH, it would kick every other planes butt round the MA...

It would turn like the current model, (no weight difference to speak of) climb 1000fpm better, and accelerate 25% better.

Probably would have to be perked... Which is sad considering it came off the production line in Summer '43.

J.E. 'Johnnie' Johnson, the Brits #1 Ace, liked it better than the Spitfire XIV.

funkedup · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2001, 12:38:00 AM »

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/001267.html

Buzzbait · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2001, 02:54:00 AM »

S!

Detailed performance figures:
http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spittest.html

Vector · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2001, 03:28:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tac:
Hijacking sounds good..

YES!

SPITFIRE XIV to AH !

As it's fashion to put "I want xxx to AH" in your sig.. Heck I'll do it too!

-vector

--------------------

414 RCAF THE BLACK KNIGHTS
"Totis Viribus-With All Our Might"

SPITFIRE XIV TO AH!
"The XIV was without a doubt the Spitfire that commanded the most respect!"

-ammo- · « **Reply #13 on:** November 18, 2001, 08:32:00 AM »

thx funked.

could you provide a link to the search feature so I can bookmark it?

Karnak · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2001, 11:10:00 AM »

-ammo-,

Here ya go: http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=search