Author Topic: Cannons vs 50s (Read 3319 times)

Pongo · « **on:** February 21, 2000, 09:22:00 AM »

I was kinda supprised how well I have done on the f4u1c so I looked at the overall plane vs stats. The 1c is nearly 2 to 1 against all planes while the 1d is nearly 1 to 3. For comparison the c47 is 1 to 10. The numbers are much smaller but the 1d has enough to be signifigant. I know the 1c is excellently armed but the 1d has the same guns as a 51 which is no slouch... I think that people just fly the 1c way more aggressivly. But we can do better that 1 to 3...

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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

Lephturn · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2000, 09:49:00 AM »

Over the last 2 tours of duty, I actually have a slightly better K/D in the D model than I do in the C model Hog. I can rack up slightly more kills in the C if the opportunity presents itself, but not a whole lot. I think this entire situation can be explained by three things:

1. 99% of the folks flying a Hog who are experienced are flying the C. (I'm the 1%. <G> ) This means that most of those flying the D model would tend to be less experienced pilots... this is just a guess.

2. The Hog is the best vulchmobile in the game. When somebody calls that ack is down and they need a tight vulch, you will see a 1/2 dozen Hog C's there to do the job. This inflates the C model's kill stats incredibly.

3. Some of the experten have gravitated to the Hog-C since it is the best BnZ platform in the game IMHO. It's killer guns make it a one-pass-wonder in the hands of a good pilot who knows how to fly the BnZ properly. I'm sure the Hog-C has pulled some away from the likes of the FW. Wait until we get the A4-5 series FW for this to switch back.

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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/

Ripsnort · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2000, 10:01:00 AM »

Leph, if you like B and Z planes, try the LA-5, I think it holds E better than the hog, and definately outclimbs it! Ya just have to make sure your shots count, only 2x20mm.

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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Rip1~Warbirds~)

"Opfer mussen gebracht werden"
— Otto Lilienthal

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-21-2000).]

Vermillion · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2000, 11:35:00 AM »

Just imagine if we finally get the La-7

Slightly lighter than the La-5, and less drag, but the same engine, and should have almost the exact same handling characteristics. But it should top out at about 420 mph.

Oh and did I mention that if the 1945 armament package is an option, it will have x3 20mm cannons, with only a very slight weight penalty (same shell, different gun).

Please Oh Please Oh Please Pyro.

The VVS deserves a late war plane as well as any other country, and the La7 would be the easiest due to art considerations.

Of course you could really suprise us and give us a Yak-9U or Yak-3. And either of these planes would easily convert art wise to the entire Yak series. (Yak-1,Yak-9,Yak-3).

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

Ripsnort · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2000, 11:50:00 AM »

All I can say about the LA-7 in the AH future is.....<Schwing!> Look out Pony Pilots.

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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Rip1~Warbirds~)

"Opfer mussen gebracht werden"
— Otto Lilienthal

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-21-2000).]

Pongo · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2000, 02:01:00 PM »

Leph
Yup
Yup
Yup.
I think the aggressivness is a factor too. You can shoot your way out of trouble with the 1c.
LA7 will be nice when it comes.

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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

funked · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2000, 02:34:00 PM »

CannonBirds. Yawwwwwwwwwwwwn!

Duckwing6 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2000, 04:06:00 PM »

I Fly the C Hog exclusively beacuse:

it's the time it needs to kill an opponent..
Usually if you make a pass on the bogie and you are not very lucky he'll see you and evade (split S most of the times) ... now with the right setup you can still kill this bogie in the C Hog with only 1 half decent shot oportunity ..

In the D hog i usually need too long to kill an enemy, or he even has enough time to let me manouver around enough untill i blew all my E and HE kills me

That makes an awfull lot of difference when you kill 3 bogies in the time you need for 1 with the D

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Phillip "Duckwing6" Artweger
Flight Officer "E" Flight
Skeleton Crew

Hangtime · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2000, 05:18:00 PM »

Hunh.

50 gazzillion posts I've read on gunnery..

Rate of fire on cannons.. when I fly the 1C I rarely miss a snaphot. Plane flys thru the stream.. 2-3 hits; planes dead.

Rate of fire on the six .50's.. when I fly the P51 I rarely kill with a snapshot. Plane flys thru the stream; 2-3 hits; plane is unfazed.

SHELL STREAM DENSITY ON MG'S UNDERMODELED!

I don't think the cannons are overmodeled; but gawdamn; the .50's are atrociously undermodeled in this situation. I've been told they were 'turned down' for 'play balance'. Time on target shots with the .50's seem fine; but no way they are right in a snapshot. And a P51; P38; F4U1D; and P47 are best flown to snapshot solutions.. not turning lag/lead situations.. these are B&Z planes that have had their B&Z armament gelded.

Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o!

Sorry fer the rant.. It just bugs me no end that all those turn on a dime cannon wagons are about and the MG B&Z planes are the ones that get the 'play balance' adjustment.

<PUNT>

Hang

214CaveJ · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2000, 05:37:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime:

I don't think the cannons are overmodeled; but gawdamn; the .50's are atrociously undermodeled in this situation. I've been told they were 'turned down' for 'play balance'.

I seem to recall sometime around the start of beta tour 2 someone saying the .50s had been turned down for playability issues.

Here lately the .50s have really been sucking hard. HT and Pyro say the balistics models haven't changed. This leaves 2 options IMO. Something got changed accidentally and unnoticed, or in the tweaking of the damage model the fighters hardness was increased to the point that the .50s are worthless. Something has deffinately changed started with version 1.00, and it seems even worse in 1.03, with the .50s on the buffs. It takes more and more ammo to get a kill on a fighter that's diving on me. And it's _not_ my gunnery =)

JENG · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2000, 06:24:00 PM »

Read this about firing ranges... and diff between guns and cannons

http://www.combatsim.com/htm/feb00/gunkill-1.htm

BEE
Nemo impune lacessit

Ripsnort · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2000, 08:03:00 PM »

I may have to fly the 51 more since reading Hang's post...haven't flown it since V.34...one thing I did notice in the 1 sortie I've had in it lately (maybe 2) was the .50's were not as "potent" as the 20mm,(historically correct) and shouldn't be, but talk about a flatter projectory!, takes awhile to get used to after compensating for the tremendous bullet drop in the 30mm cannon of FW.

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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Rip1~Warbirds~)

"Opfer mussen gebracht werden"
— Otto Lilienthal

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-21-2000).]

214CaveJ · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2000, 08:09:00 PM »

thanks for that link Bee, I enjoyed reading it.

Quote

Later that month Parr used the F-86F's A-4 lead computing gun sight to take out his seventh victim at a phenomenal 4,800 feet!!

(taken from the article Bee linked)
That's a 1600 yard kill with 6 .50s. I'm sure it took a fair amount of ammo to get that kill. AFAIK the AH .50s haven't been able to pull of shots like that at anytime.

Either way ya slice it, I think the .50s need some serious looking at, and turn them up to full strength. Conversely, you can pull all other airframe mounted guns down by the same % as the .50s are (which, IMO, is a VERY bad idea =)

Hangtime · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2000, 09:17:00 PM »

Dammo Bee.. good read. thanks.

" More than enough. A one second burst was all that was needed,"

Humph. IMHO the AH .50's ain't right.
I vote they fix em.. not tune down the damn cannons too.

Hang

Pyro · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2000, 09:29:00 PM »

MGs haven't been changed in a long time, certainly not since version 1.00. The last change BTW made them stronger. The only change ever made that would have made them weaker was when we implemented energy loss at range, something I'm pretty sure we did before we went open beta.

I have been looking at some things and one change I'll be changing is to give the 20mm's more of a reduction in damage at long range.

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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

"If it's stupid but works, it's not stupid."

Author Topic: Cannons vs 50s (Read 3319 times)

funked

214CaveJ

JENG

214CaveJ