The Perk Planes

[juzz]

Read the paragraphs below that one RAM. Ie: The third one.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by juzz:
Read the paragraphs below that one RAM. Ie: The third one.

Juzz that is just my point...because want it or not the 1945 planes are mainly allied and of the few axis ones the only that can be something near a problem for them will be ta152...wich was conceived as a high altitude buff interceptor,not as a fighter.

Those planes will be great if put in a perk mode, but not if you put them available for everyone.

Plus those planes will rend this planeset obsolete, and that is not good either. IMHO this is a WWII simulator, not a what-if late 1945.If you add all those planes as standard then you are moving away from WWII.

And I dont like it either.

SOrry if I didnt state it well in my previous post, But I hope to have put it clear now.

[juzz]

RAM, this is how I think it should be.

Q. Which planes can be included as normal planes in AH?

A. Anything that isn't too much better than the P-51D.

Q. Which planes can be included as perk planes?

A. Anything in production by the end of 1945.

Clear?

P-51H, F8F, Me 262 Do 335 etc, would be a perk.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by juzz:
RAM, this is how I think it should be.

Q. Which planes can be included as normal planes in AH?

A. Anything that isn't too much better than the P-51D.

Agreed  

 

Q. Which planes can be included as perk planes?

A. Anything in production by the end of 1945.

Clear?

P-51H, F8F, Me 262 Do 335 etc, would be a perk.

hummm...I dont thing P80 would be ok as perk plane...
of course I think just the same about Go229.  

but we agree in all the rest.  

[SnakeEyes]

Any particular reason why you think that the P80 shouldn't be a perk plane, Ram?

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by SnakeEyes:
Any particular reason why you think that the P80 shouldn't be a perk plane, Ram?

Two reasons:
1: it is american and I dont like american planes.

2:it is too uber.

(just kidding     )

no, seriously, I may be wrong but AFAIK the P80 was a plane that until late september 1945 wasnt operational. And that is too late for my taste of a WWII planeset.

Of course then Go229 was scheduled for late october-november 1945  

but, seriously I dont think that any of them belong to a WWII simulator. Its a personal opinion,nothing else.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-15-2000).]

[SnakeEyes]

My understanding is that 45 P-80s were produced prior to the end of the war in the ETO and that two had been deployed to Italy for operational evaluation, but were specifically kept out of actual combat situations.  That's a far cry from an aircraft that never made it past the prototype stage (Go229).

The other difference, in terms of why the P-80 could be modeled, and the Go229 probably won't, is that there is a large body of real flight test data that HTC could draw on to model the P-80.  In contrast, the *prototype* for the production version of the Go229 was never even finished, so you're really mixing apples and oranges in terms of comparing the two and why they should or should not be modeled.

Flight Sims are about "what ifs" as much as they are about recreating history.  IMO, that makes the P-80 a legitamite candidate for being modeled as a perk plane some day in the future (though, personally, I far prefer Prop aircraft).


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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[whels]

lol, your LW guys are funny. in the 4 months
i have been reading this board, all i ever see is the LW pilots want this plane and that plane, per the allied planes but dont perk ours. if u choose to fly LW planes the
learn to live with what they really had to fly n fight against dont sit here and try and
complain your way into keeping ur LW planes
as the uber set of the arena.  get tired of seeing, people stomp thier feet saying
I want my plane better then yours.

i fly a plane because i want too, not because its better than what the enemy have.

Whels

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by SnakeEyes:
My understanding is that 45 P-80s were produced prior to the end of the war in the ETO and that two had been deployed to Italy for operational evaluation, but were specifically kept out of actual combat situations.  That's a far cry from an aircraft that never made it past the prototype stage (Go229).

Didnt know that. If it is true, it is OK with me to bring P80 into the Perk planeset.

 

The other difference, in terms of why the P-80 could be modeled, and the Go229 probably won't, is that there is a large body of real flight test data that HTC could draw on to model the P-80.  In contrast, the *prototype* for the production version of the Go229 was never even finished, so you're really mixing apples and oranges in terms of comparing the two and why they should or should not be modeled.

Forgetting about the offensive tone of that last paragraph I'll tell you that there were extensive tests on Ho prototypes. Maybe is not the extension of the research the P80 has, but here we have some planes done with little information (C205 comes to mind in this matter). So I dont thing that is a motive to keep Go229 out of the perk system, at least if you are going to introduce planes up to december 1945.


The motives for me are others well different, that for me Go229 was too late for even the perk system...but that happens also with the DH Vampire, and I thought that it happened too with the P80. Seems the P80 was in Italy last days of the war? ok, then include it. I thought that they still were going to last some more time to arrive.



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-16-2000).]

[Sorrow[S=A]]

in all this RAM, I have a question (hopefully your hot spanish blood is cool enough to answer without yelling )

Every time a new plane has been added to the set that is late war planeset (nik2, Yak, P47, p-38) has HTC not been VERY good about making sure the plane is not an arena dominator? I mean some of these guys had bugs but when corrected they are all very competetive in the arena. and furthermore..  not one of them has been _exactly_ what you thought it would be.

  Now what makes you think that HTC would either
A: throw a completely dominant plane into the planeset that would be imminently capable of killing other planes in the dweebiest hands?

or

B: Put in a MkXIV as perfect as you fear it would be?

They have NEVER done so in the past- F4u-c is closest they have come yet when approached with respect the chicken of the sea can be dealt with by almost any other plane.
  Frankly I think it's funny that you guys read all the glowing praise of the spit and think it will be modelled "just so" and with none of the bad areas. IMHO anyone who thinks that is bloody foolish- HTC hasn't done that with ANY plane they have done yet. If anything they swing the OTHER way- they model all it's nastiest characteristics and then give it the performance it had historically.

In any case- time will tell. Why bother complaining about the MkXIV before it even APPEARS???
I think it has every right to be here- so does the dora and the La-7. Bring 'em on and lets start the party rolling!!

[fdiron]

Go229 is the prototype name for the Gotha Flying Wing.  Ho229 is the production name.  I read that this plane was highly unstable in flight.  

[RAM]

Sorrow:
I never feared Yak9 half as much as I fear Spit XIV, and that happens with all planes that have been introduced since I came here.

I say nothing about HTC ,they know their work and I trust their criterium to choose if SpitXIV is a perk plane or not.
I only say that I am pretty sure that if the SpitXIV comes to AH as described in that report comparing it with Fw190 me109 and spitIX, then it will be a monster ,and so it will be perked...but also am concerned with the incoming yells if it is perked from RAF people...

Fdiron...where did you read that? cuz I read just the opposite about it!

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-17-2000).]

[Zigrat]

p80 should not be perk. period. its a frigging korean war airplane, not ww2. You really want some runstang driver in a 600 MPH p80? Puh-leeze.

[Critter]

Forget your friggin DORKA and Spit XXIVVITFRYETREYRTJHDERESNBGKJ's I just want some ocean and a PBY Cat.  

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[Torque]

critter maybe a Blackcat version PBY now that would rock.