Ju87D, Ju87G for the Rudel wannabe's soon i hope

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Dowding:
So all sides were equally 'evil'? How very convenient.

Just thinking it otherway around as if.. hypotetic speculating.
For example: if nazis would of win, then we would be whining about yanks, how they did bomb the cities and kill millions, instead of whining how nazis killed millions in the holocaust.

blaablaablaa..
Im sure you get the point all by yourself, you can't be that ignorant.


Well, we could as well take living example..

In Soviet Union, when it did still exist, people were taught hard that americans are evil and yaddayadda.. (do I need to say more? or has someone missed something?)

During same time, during the cold war times, there were some level of hysteria towards communists in USA and people were taught that communists are evil.

(and who bothers to ever talk about their own mistakes?)

[Nimits]

I understand the point, but I believe it is invalid in light of the facts of history (of which I am a student, literally).

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Nimits:
I understand the point, but I believe it is invalid in light of the facts of history (of which I am a student, literally).

..and the next point, which im more interested in?
*why* there isn't talking of the work that communists and japanese did?
We talk about the one evil, but we leave couple other evil ones be forgotten?

[Buzzbait]

S!

The morons and Nazi apologists like R4M really need to read some actual HISTORY.

The Nazi leadership and their various administrators drew up detailed plans which were for the future of Europe and Western Asia.

These plans called for the EXTERMINATION of entire races.  Not only the Jewish race, but also the Slavs etc.  All to be replaced by well scrubbed blonde little Aryans.  The inferior races were to be used as slaves until enough German colonists could take over their former countries.  Yes we are talking Hundreds of millions planned for the death camps.  It would have made the Holocaust look like a Sunday picnic.

Comparing that type of ideology to the Western Allies is a joke.  Even Stalin wasn't Racist enough to think particular races of people deserved complete extermination.  (no I'm not a Stalin fan)

If Hitler had won the war, the world would be a dark place.

Compare his plans to what the Western Allies did.  They funnelled MILLIONS of dollars into the defeated countries to allow them to rebuild successful democratic societies which are now the biggest competitors facing the U.S. or other Allies.  If British and U.S. Leaders really were War Criminals, why behave so nicely when they had the Germans and Japanese at their mercy?????

You're lucky you don't live in 1930's Germany.  You'd be euthanized for displaying "untermensch"  tendencies.

                                 

[Staga]

 

Originally posted by Buzzbait:
If British and U.S. Leaders really were War Criminals, why behave so nicely when they had the Germans and Japanese at their mercy?????

They did remember what happened last time they acted like that?

[Montezuma]

 

Originally posted by Fishu:

Note: im not saying that nazis werent bad or so, just wondering how people only keeps whining of the nazis.

They set up INDUSTRIAL MASS MURDER FACTORIES, they were not satisfied with just shooting and starving people.  

They also imported millions of people from other countries specifically to murder them in killing centers.

They didn't just loot their victims, they even harvested commodities from the corpses on an industrial scale.

In the history of all the 20th Century bloodbaths, these crimes will be the unique and eternal legacy of Nazi Germany.

Oh, they also started the worst war in human history.


Back on topic, I think the Stuka would be a great addition to AH.  

[-lynx-]

 

In Soviet Union, when it did still exist, people were taught hard that americans are evil and yaddayadda.. (do I need to say more? or has someone missed something?)

Fishu, I take it that was what they told you at your (Finninsh?) school cuz I don't remember being taught any such nonsense...

Back to the topic - bring the Stuka in and some early war planes as well

[Staga]

Lynx did they teach in history lessons about fights in Suomussalmi and Raattentie (Road of Raate) where over 20000 russian soldiers died (44. and 163.Division of 9th.Army).
Howabout reasons why Russia invaded Finland? (Does Mainila ring a bell?)

Its not always what they teach but what they "forgot" to teach and why.

[Glasses]

Stalin was not racist enough?...Pardon me, I think he's up there with ol' A.H. in the racist circle. Read the mass removal of East Russian  people to Siberia and the deep hatred Stalin also felt for the Jews.

------------------
Glasses---I may have 4 eyes ,but you only have one wing.
9./JG54
                                                     
Besser tot als rot!



[This message has been edited by Glasses (edited 05-10-2001).]

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Montezuma:
They set up INDUSTRIAL MASS MURDER FACTORIES, they were not satisfied with just shooting and starving people.  

They also imported millions of people from other countries specifically to murder them in killing centers.

They didn't just loot their victims, they even harvested commodities from the corpses on an industrial scale.

In the history of all the 20th Century bloodbaths, these crimes will be the unique and eternal legacy of Nazi Germany.

Oh, they also started the worst war in human history.

Perhaps you understood wrong?
So, why there isnt whining of japs and communists?
Japanese made people be slaves and die in work, same what communists did.
Communists have done about same as nazi germans Gestapo - just a word for wrong ears and your relatives will never see you again.

and so on..  well, so, why all lack against communists and japs?
Im NOT saying that "oh how sweet those nazis were, they were so nice people".
so quit telling me about those things which I know and tell me something that I don't know - wheres all the whine of brutalities of other countries?

[AG Sachsenberg]

Seems everyone forgot about the mass execution of jews by the russians as well    

Answer this one:  Why were Japanese doctors not tried for crimes against humanity and guess which country gave them work?

There will always be eveil in this world, please do not point your finger at just one, but look around and you will be amazed at what you uncover.  

I guess the slaying of innocent Indian woman and children was ok by the american settlers as well?  Or stalin knocking off a good portion of the officer corp?  These are good crimes?  I think a lot of you need a dose of reality and come to the facts that they were all bad, no one being worse then the other.   Maybe the numbers might construe the truth but the fact's remain.  They all commited murder!

[Dowding]

 

*why* there isn't talking of the work that communists and japanese did?

Maybe it's because you are Finnish that you yourself are not aware of the crimes against humanity committed by the Japanese.

Because I'll tell you this now, the countries of the Commonwealth and Britain remember the POW camps full of starving British troops.

I suggest also you read 'The Rape of Nanking' or accounts of the attack on Hong Kong (which occured on the same day as the attack on Pearl Harbour).

Institutionalised rape of Chinese women (and Western women too).

So basically don't project your ignorance onto other people and claim they know nothing about the crimes Japan caused.

Regarding Stalin - I've read several books on him and his 'methods'. They were truly, truly awful. His secret service was as bad as the Gestapo. But that doesn't get away from the fact that the Nazi's institutionalized the extinction of whole races. They viewed the Russians as Untermenschen and treated them that way from day one of Barbarossa.

I really don't see the point you are making. Maybe it stems from being Finnish and having the dubious honour of belonging to a country that allied itself with the Nazis, but maybe not. I personally don't think Finland had much of a choice - it was sink or swim and they had to accept the first hand offered to them. But for god's sake, it does not warrant being so defensive about the Nazi's war record.

 

Answer this one: Why were Japanese doctors not tried for crimes against humanity and guess which country gave them work?

For the same reason that HUGE numbers of German Nazi doctors were accepted with open arms by the British, Americans and the Russians - with no trial and no questions asked.

 

I think a lot of you need a dose of reality and come to the facts that they were all bad, no one being worse then the other.

The British were bad as the Germans? The Americans were bad as the Japanese? How can you believe this?

I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter rubbish. It's absolutely a Nazi apologist argument. That somehow 'all sides were as bad as each other'.

[Staga]

 

The standards set by the Geneva Convention were, in most cases, totally ignored by the Americans and French in relation to their treatment of German prisoners-of-war. The French deliberately starved many of their POWs in order to force them to join the French Foreign Legion. Thousands of Legionaires who fought in the Viet Nam conflict were Germans handed over by the Americans to the French in 1945/46 to work as slave labourers in the rebuilding of France's war damaged cities. Conditions in the French camps were just as bad if not worse than in the American camps. It is estimated that at least 167,000 German soldiers died in French captivity between 1945 and 1948.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres.html

Lesson is no one was innocent.

[AG Sachsenberg]

Dowding please read this a little closer.

These are good crimes? I think a lot of you need a dose of reality and come to the facts that they were all bad, no one being worse then the other. Maybe the numbers might construe the truth but the fact's remain. They all commited murder!


ALl crimes consisting of both sides are heinous.  How am I wrong on this assumption?  Because I stated that all sides were murderers?  Because its bad if the germans killed 6 million jews, but its ok if the Japanese killed only a few hundred thousand chinese?  Truly blind are you to the insight as to what I was saying.  

All teh crimes were commited, maybe some worse then others but that is what they were crimes.  How you can categorize them and say oh well this one was a lil worse then that one lets just forget about this other one and place it nice and hidden under this carpet.  I am not stating the germans were right or wrong, hell even the japanese or whoever.  They did the crimes they should do the time. Sorry for the pun on words there.  basically Dowding you just stated that the Nazi's agenda yes it was to exterminate a race which is bad, but how is raping and torturing an entire population of a country not warranted on the same degree?

[Fishu]

Dowding,

I don't understand how you make up those points when thats not the point here.

Why all the fuzz is only about the nazi horrors?
Why 99% of the time I see talking of the nazis but aside that it seems that communists or japs werent even bad ones at all? (or few others)

Yet you go on with some crap that is irrelevant and go to insult me!

I really don't see the point you are making. Maybe it stems from being Finnish and having the dubious honour of belonging to a country that allied itself with the Nazis, but maybe not.

[/b]

That was an insult, without any reason.
im waiting you to apologize this immediatly.

I have not insulted anyone, nor been for the nazi side either.

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 05-10-2001).]