Hard Times for N. Korea

[JunkyII]

UN closed off shore accounts of people and companies involved with the missle launchs and under nuclear test. I read in the Korea Herald, that a South Korean think tank is predicting that in the next 6 months the North will either finally listen to the UN or start using its Military to get land for food and money. Another big thing that is going to make this happen faster is the South ending 2 projects in the North that would have created more jobs and helped the economy. Lets hope that crazy man up North decides to spare the life of alot of good soldiers and civilians in order to establish peace on the pennisula and in the region

[oakranger]

If he is anything like Hitler at the end of the war, i really doubt it.  I just wonder how bad, or if been bad can it get any worst, their economy is.

BTY JunkyII, Are you station over there on a Air force base?  I have a friend who is a F/A-18 pilot there but not sure where he is station at.

[CHAPPY]

 

[Masherbrum]

NK won't attack anyone.   They rattle their sabre from time to time for some attention.   Because more than 1/2 of their "Army" is.......unarmed. 

[Anodizer]

NK won't attack anyone.   They rattle their sabre from time to time for some attention.   Because more than 1/2 of their "Army" is.......unarmed. 

Not sure if that's necessarily true..  In this day and age, I think the DPRK can take more chances than they normally would..  The UN has shown it is dysfunctional, so no worries there..
Kim's youngest son(Kim Jong Un IIRC) will be inheriting his father's position of "Leader Of The Party" which is effectively the defacto leader of the country..
However, he's only in his 20's and it is doubtful that he will actually be leading..  Probably more of figure head..  So, the military will probably be in control..  If that happens, I'm thinking the DPRK will become even more of sore on the rest of the world's arse than it is now..  As I'm sure everyone knows, the DPRK is a military first country..  Most of the country's money goes to the military as well as excesses for political leaders/employees while it's people literally starve to death..  Also, the population itself in the DPRK is indoctrinated in such a way that they truly have no clue or idea what goes on and how things work in the real world..  So, even though they are a starving population, they are still brainwashed more or less..  So, you wouldn't be dealing with just the DPRK's military..  You'd be dealing with an entire population, armed or unarmed..  There's a lot of history behind Korea (unified and divided) and why these people are the way they are as well as why they are so easily indoctrinated..  I could tell you some strange things about these people..  Without western influence, SK would not be much different than the DPRK as far as culture and beliefs..  As in most Asian countries throughout history, life is not held in as high regard as it is in the west..  This is evident by most Asian countries' human rights records.  The DPRK would have no problems with it's civil population being decimated as long as the current leadership structure and political figures remained in power.. 

[Stoney]

As in most Asian countries throughout history, life is not held in as high regard as it is in the west..  This is evident by most Asian countries' human rights records.

I disagree with this, and believe it is the biggest misconception of the west with respect to Asia.  Asian mother's love their children as much as any other mother in any other culture.  We, the West, cannot continue to view the situation this way--its a cultural failure for us to do so.  Life is indeed just as valuable to their culture as it is ours.  Their governments and leaders may not treat their people in a manner that reflects that, but don't for a second believe that some despot's callousness is shared by the populations that supply his army.  Therein lies our ability to resist their aggression.

[oakranger]

But their sticks may be dangerous

[Anodizer]

I disagree with this, and believe it is the biggest misconception of the west with respect to Asia.  Asian mother's love their children as much as any other mother in any other culture.  We, the West, cannot continue to view the situation this way--its a cultural failure for us to do so.  Life is indeed just as valuable to their culture as it is ours.  Their governments and leaders may not treat their people in a manner that reflects that, but don't for a second believe that some despot's callousness is shared by the populations that supply his army.  Therein lies our ability to resist their aggression.

This is comforting way to look at things with respect to that part of the world..  But also dangerously naive..  Life is absolutely not viewed as valuable as any other culture..  Absolutely not..


Culture includes government since the governing body of the people directly effects and reflects the culture..  Not arguing the point that an Asian mother will care for her children like any other decent mother..  But that isn't really part of the argument/discussion here..  As a culture, as a people, they do not hold the same views on life and personal/human rights/freedoms as western countries..  
Several things I learned in Anthropology class from my professor who also happened to be a Chinese Immigrant go inline with sources I've found on the net as well as papers and texts..

1. Rights in Asia are culture specific. (where westernism has taken root in places such as Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, it has introduced the value of individual life and individual rights)

2. The community takes precedence over individuals (this can be exemplified by the Chinese saying "The Nail that sticks out gets hammered down"..

3.  Social and economic rights take precedence over civil and political rights ( you can get healthcare and your share of bread/meat for the month, but you can't protest or hold an assembly.
     those who don't conform are dealt with severely).

4.  Rights are a matter of national sovereignty. (this is evident by China saying that their human rights record is pretty much no one else's concern but their own)

[Maverick]

NK won't attack anyone.   They rattle their sabre from time to time for some attention.   Because more than 1/2 of their "Army" is.......unarmed. 

And your link to confirm this is????

Frankly the NK's are more likely to do something very ungood when they that view their back is to the wall. Their current leader is dying, he may not give a rats posterior about his countrymen. If he attacks and loses half his military, that means half of his costs just went away too. Besides the more he can put his country in a war footing the less likely the peasantry is going to become restless.

Asian mothers may love their kids as much as western mothers do but they are not in charge, nor do they have a say about dear leaders actions.

[JunkyII]

NK won't attack anyone.   They rattle their sabre from time to time for some attention.   Because more than 1/2 of their "Army" is.......unarmed. 

I bet people were saying that 55 years ago.....To my knowledge they have never had this bad of a problem with money, then had the UN make it even worse by freezing accounts and ROK stop helping them. Tell me about the "Army" isnt it mandatory that they join for a certain amount of years? Pretty hard for even us to equip our  volunteer soldiers with good gear and we dont have half that number.

[JunkyII]

Oak, Im in Army at Yongsan, in Seoul. HAs a 30 minute life expectancey if the North attacks. I love when people sit back and say they will just rattle their sabres when the North is on its back looking to solve the problem

[RufusLeaking]

I disagree with this, and believe it is the biggest misconception of the west with respect to Asia.  Asian mother's love their children as much as any other mother in any other culture.  We, the West, cannot continue to view the situation this way--its a cultural failure for us to do so.  Life is indeed just as valuable to their culture as it is ours.  Their governments and leaders may not treat their people in a manner that reflects that, but don't for a second believe that some despot's callousness is shared by the populations that supply his army.  Therein lies our ability to resist their aggression.

Asia's mothers do, of course, love their children.

However, allow me a couple of first hand anecdotes.  My wife is Chinese from the mainland.  We were in the military history section of a bookstore when she asked me why the US started the Korean War.  This one can be passed off as propaganda.  Another time, she asked me why people were forced to put "POW" license plates on their cars.  She said that in her culture it is shameful to have been taken captive and no one would voluntarily put it on display.

Regarding North Korean attitudes towards sacrificing its people, it has a track record of putting international prestige and posturing ahead of feeding its people.  The people at the top are megalomaniacs.  The parallels with Hitler are appropriate.  One of the largest problems is that the West will do more to minimize casualties among North Koreans than the DPRK will.

[Stoney]

...Anthropology class...

I should have known.  Value for life on a cultural level is completely different than value for life at the political level.  Like I said before, the leaders may treat their people like serfs, but it doesn't mean that the citizenry doesn't value life as much as we do.  Those people value human rights as much as we do--they just don't have them.

[Vudak]

I should have known.  Value for life on a cultural level is completely different than value for life at the political level.  Like I said before, the leaders may treat their people like serfs, but it doesn't mean that the citizenry doesn't value life as much as we do.  Those people value human rights as much as we do--they just don't have them.

I don't have any doubt that every mother across the planet loves their kids the same as the next, but I wonder if every mother really places as much value on her neighbor's kids as we do. 

[Lord ReDhAwK]

Heh.  Junky, your life expectancy in Seoul is 2 minutes bud (if the balloon goes up.)  That is the flight time of the missle, and that is no exaggeration.  Seoul is tgt #1 on the list.

I remember that things happened all the time (in Korea when I was stationed there) that American news media never reported over here in the states.  People getting blown up by land mines because they strayed off a trail, ect.  That happened a few times a month.  North Koreans seen across our side of the fence, then disappeared.  Hell bud, you're over there and know far more than we do here about what is going on.  Are you on alert?  If not, then no worries.  Go have a kettle to celebrate =)  After all, they wont let you leave

ReDhAwK