Author Topic: Hard Times for N. Korea  (Read 2452 times)

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2009, 11:44:51 AM »
That's not what he said. He said "the idea for N. Korea's government originated in the West". I suggest you learn to read. The idea of communism originated in the west, and Marx is considered the "father" of modern communism.

I think Plato shares some of the blame, too.
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Offline Die Hard

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2009, 11:53:47 AM »
Sure, but I wouldn't call his ideas "modern". Come to think of it, Marx is getting a bit outdated too.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2009, 12:05:42 PM »
True, but I just think it would be too generous not to hold Plato somewhat accountable, as there can be no doubt that Marx was a fan of the Republic.

Rice paddy farming and what's required to be successful at it would seem to preclude the idea of communism ever arising in Asia.  The plots are tiny, and to increase the yield requires year round, laborious, technical work.  The ground has to be perfectly level, the water level has to be just right, etc., and the more exact you are setting things up, the more rice you get.  It's not something you can succeed at with slave labor, i.e. European style serfdom.  Feudal lords in Asia allowed their tenants to keep whatever surplus they could get out of their tiny plot, as allowing for profit was the only way to ensure the skilled labor required for an adequate harvest.

Edit:

Just to emphasize the point, with European style serfdom, along with the landlord keeping nearly all the wealth, there were long off seasons when no one worked.  In the winter everyone pretty much hunkered down indoors sleeping and relaxing.  One of the ideals of communism is that when the work is done, you get to relax and engage in recreation.  Compare that to the Chinese proverb that goes "No one who rises before dawn 360 days a year can fail to make his family rich."
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 12:18:37 PM by Anaxogoras »
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Offline Anodizer

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2009, 12:13:07 PM »
In the sense of the word "origin," it is true that N. Korea's government is a Western idea, and not in a generalized or partially true way.


 :rolleyes:
So, you're saying that Marxism is a western idea..  Ok..  Only in the fact that it was thought of in Western Europe by an individual who's views were unique to himself and not any government..  It is not a WESTERN idea..  
To be considered a western idea, it has to be implemented in the west en masse..
Western governments and politicians did not think or implement Marxism in those times..  If you want to get technical, Marxism was not even familiar to most scholars until the October Revolution..  The Communist Manifesto was by no means a best seller..    Your talking semantics here...  And honestly, has nothing to do with the discussion on North Korea..  Karl Marx is not the reason that North Korea is communist..  Karl Marx probably had no idea there was such a place as Korea..  There are many many more underlying factors and your stating of the most mundanely obvious facts is kind of..........Pointless......?  Do you actually have anything relevant to add?  Or did you chime in just to sound informed?  If so, you're going to have to work a lot harder than that.. :lol

« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 12:15:44 PM by Anodizer »
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Offline Anodizer

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #64 on: July 31, 2009, 12:17:55 PM »
That's not what he said. He said "the idea for N. Korea's government originated in the West". I suggest you learn to read. The idea of communism originated in the west, and Marx is considered the "father" of modern communism.

The "west" is(or was) the antithesis of communism..  Communism is not a "western" idea..
Again, semantics.... 
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #65 on: July 31, 2009, 12:19:09 PM »
The "west" is(or was) the antithesis of communism..  Communism is not a "western" idea..
Again, semantics.... 

I guess Plato is no longer part of Western philosophy.
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Offline Anodizer

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2009, 12:51:43 PM »
I guess Plato is no longer part of Western philosophy.

Whoever said that????  Why are you bringing Plato into this??  The stuff you are bringing up truly has nothing to do with the discussion going on in this thread....
You're stating nothing but semantics..  This is a North Korea thread..  Not a "I need to show how smart I think I am" thread consisting of "Profound" revelations
that the most anyone would know if they paid attention in high school..

May as well be playing 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon or whatever they call it....  Your throwing random facts out that are related by a span of light years and really has
nothing to do with North Korea in modern times..  The ideas of Marxism were so radicalized by the time communism took hold in the North, it's pointless to even bring
Karl Marx, let alone Plato, into the conversation.. 


« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 01:13:05 PM by Anodizer »
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #67 on: July 31, 2009, 01:29:09 PM »
Not worth my time...
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Offline Die Hard

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #68 on: July 31, 2009, 01:35:21 PM »
To be considered a western idea, it has to be implemented in the west en masse..

Europe is not in the "west" anymore? Strange. The whole of Europe, including European Russia (west of the Urals) used to be called the "West" and Asia was called the "East". What was in the middle? Why the Middle-East of course!




I'd call that "en masse".
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

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Offline Die Hard

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #69 on: July 31, 2009, 01:43:25 PM »
The official ideology of the North Korean state was Marxism-Leninism (both of whom were from the western world) up till 1977 when it was superseded by Jucheism, defined as a creative application of Marxism-Leninism.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 01:45:56 PM by Die Hard »
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Offline Anodizer

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #70 on: July 31, 2009, 02:13:21 PM »
The official ideology of the North Korean state was Marxism-Leninism (both of whom were from the western world) up till 1977 when it was superseded by Jucheism, defined as a creative application of Marxism-Leninism.

Yeah, that's about all the info I'd get too if I read Wiki....  Again, very generalized and doesn't give any indication of why North Korea has the government that it does.. 
You gents and myself see things differently apparently..  While the facts are the facts, they are mostly semantics..  It's like playing the 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon..
In the end, nothing is truly related except for a very fundamental level..  The Communism that North Korea implements is Stalinism..  While Stalinism is just another flavor
of communism, it is a particular flavor that stings more than your usual Marxism..  We can throw this ball back and forth all day.... 

From a real world perspective, Communism has it's roots in the "west" just as the U.S. Space Program has it's roots in Nazi Germany..  While the facts are the facts, they are still
quite distant from each other.. 
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Offline kilo2

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #71 on: July 31, 2009, 03:03:02 PM »
Yeah, that's about all the info I'd get too if I read Wiki....  Again, very generalized and doesn't give any indication of why North Korea has the government that it does.. 
You gents and myself see things differently apparently..  While the facts are the facts, they are mostly semantics..  It's like playing the 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon..
In the end, nothing is truly related except for a very fundamental level..  The Communism that North Korea implements is Stalinism..  While Stalinism is just another flavor
of communism, it is a particular flavor that stings more than your usual Marxism..  We can throw this ball back and forth all day.... 

From a real world perspective, Communism has it's roots in the "west" just as the U.S. Space Program has it's roots in Nazi Germany..  While the facts are the facts, they are still
quite distant from each other.. 

Karl Marx's communism is much different than any other form of Communism ever enacted by any government even Russia. I honestly don't know what point your trying to make any more.
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Offline Die Hard

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #72 on: July 31, 2009, 03:07:39 PM »
The Communism that North Korea implements is Stalinism..  While Stalinism is just another flavor
of communism, it is a particular flavor that stings more than your usual Marxism..  We can throw this ball back and forth all day.... 

Stalin was born and lived in the "west".
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline DMBEAR

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #73 on: July 31, 2009, 04:44:44 PM »
When you treat a snake like a teddy bear...














Offline JunkyII

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Re: Hard Times for N. Korea
« Reply #74 on: July 31, 2009, 06:17:13 PM »
When you treat a snake like a teddy bear...














dude thats creeps me out, i hate snakes and biting a hotty like that, yes i really do hate snakes :frown:
Not worth my time...
you started it :aok
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