Author Topic: Dogfighting question  (Read 1789 times)

Offline A8EJay

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Dogfighting question
« on: July 30, 2009, 09:31:33 PM »
Heya fellas.  Had a quick question.  Been playing for about 4 months and am getting better.  Once i get behind someone i can usually get 'em.  But does anyone know where there's any good info on how to get people off your tail or how to avoid getting hit when someone is diving on you.  I seem to be struggling with this.  I usually fly the slower planes that handle better (spit altho not really slow, hurri, zeke, brewster etc).  I also like the c 205, ki84, 11 and 40 jug and most of the 6 .50 american planes.  I've tried a couple things, stuff i saw on history channel and some other stuff i read somewhere but its not helping.  Might just need more practice and time on the game but its gettin annoying getting shot down all the time.  Thanks in advance.  :salute

Offline Spatula

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Re: Dogfighting question
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2009, 10:39:10 PM »
Have you checked out the following sites:

http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/
http://www.netaces.org/

Specifically these articles:
http://www.netaces.org/altmonkey/altmonkey.htm
http://www.netaces.org/gunsdefense/gunsdefense.htm
http://www.netaces.org/avoidbnz/avoidbnz.htm
http://www.netaces.org/reversals/reversals.htm

Its best not to let someone on your six in the first place. There is a difference between 'camped out' on your 6, and someone closing in on your 6 with more speed than you (closure rate). The former is the worst place to be in - eg someone with little to no closure rate dead behind you and within guns range. The later is a much better proposition. Avoid the camped out scenario at all costs!

Heres some simple things to do to help your defensives:
 - stay at your aircrafts best corner velocity/turn rate. Too slow and you cant move out of your opponents cross hairs fast enough. The faster you can change heading (rate), the quicker you can move out of danger. Too slow, and you're an easy kill. You'll find this to be around 180-240 depending on the aircraft (200-220 is a good starting point). 
 - always turn towards your attacker, so that you pass him as close to head-on as possible. This forces them to have to turn more, and more tighter to turn onto your six which costs them energy. Also hanging out directly underneath your attacker forces them to go into steep energy wasting dives which are easily avoided.
 - engineer a high closure rate, by trying to be slower than your opponent, but not below your best corner speed. This means you need to have a reasonable guess at your opponents energy stakes and speed (look at how fast the distance closes as he dives at you). Turn into them a bit so they approach you from 3-4 o'clock or 8-9 o'clock if you can't completely turn to meet them in time. This increases their closure rate and makes it easier to avoid their shots (not to mention to engineer an overshoot). Barrel-rolls can help sometimes to increase the closure rate. Use your throttle if you're too fast to slow down. Use the rudder to skid if you're too fast. Deploy airbrakes if you have em if you're too fast etc. Be careful tho, dont scrub off too much speed tho (always stay close to your best corner speed).

Do anything you can to avoid the camped out scenario, and get a moderate to high closure rate. Closure rate doesnt always mean speed differential (but this is the simplest example). Changing the "angle off tail" (the angle they approach your 6 from) changes the closure rate as well. If you are both 250MPH, if they approach from the rear, there is no closure. If you are both 250MPH and he approaches from 3 o'clock he has closure. Dont just think breaking left and right either, think up/down/left/right (eg in all 3 dimensions). Get more used to maneuvering in all dimensions to make yourself harder to hit. Get 'out of plane' (basically make sure you wings are not aligned with your attackers).

Once you get better at engineering the closure rate and following them around in your views etc you can begin to anticipate there moves and be prepared to take advantage of the overshoots and turn the tables!
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 10:43:54 PM by Spatula »
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Offline stealth

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Re: Dogfighting question
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2009, 02:29:44 AM »
simple break in the direction there comeing at you spit9 i suggest its deadly
My Email is ACalex88@gmail.com if you want to contact me

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Offline StokesAk

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Re: Dogfighting question
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2009, 02:45:51 AM »
Strokes

Offline humble

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Re: Dogfighting question
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2009, 12:50:40 PM »
The simple reality is that this is what the training corps is for. 30 minutes of "hands on" interaction once or twice a week can and will make a world of difference. Pop into the TA or schedule a session with one of the trainers. In a pinch I'd be happy to spend some time with you, just do a ".f snaphook" in the text buffer and give me a shout if I'm online....

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline Saxman

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Re: Dogfighting question
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2009, 01:03:27 PM »
If I have an opponent diving on me from behind I prefer to break under him with a low yo-yo into him (so if he's at my 7, I go left). A low yo is good because it helps conserve your Energy. Once he blows past I'll extend in a shallow zoom climb to regain altitude. Depending on how fast he's coming in, he may overshoot and scrub his E pulling out, putting himself below me. From there I'll just pull into a high barrel-roll and drop on top of him. If he takes better care with his E state, lather, rinse repeat until you've neutralized his position.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline stealth

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Re: Dogfighting question
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2009, 05:30:39 PM »
If I have an opponent diving on me from behind I prefer to break under him with a low yo-yo into him (so if he's at my 7, I go left). A low yo is good because it helps conserve your Energy. Once he blows past I'll extend in a shallow zoom climb to regain altitude. Depending on how fast he's coming in, he may overshoot and scrub his E pulling out, putting himself below me. From there I'll just pull into a high barrel-roll and drop on top of him. If he takes better care with his E state, lather, rinse repeat until you've neutralized his position.
good stratgey thats what i do
My Email is ACalex88@gmail.com if you want to contact me

"I shall fear no evil, for I am 80,000 feet and climbing"

Offline CAP1

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Re: Dogfighting question
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2009, 05:47:37 PM »
The simple reality is that this is what the training corps is for. 30 minutes of "hands on" interaction once or twice a week can and will make a world of difference. Pop into the TA or schedule a session with one of the trainers. In a pinch I'd be happy to spend some time with you, just do a ".f snaphook" in the text buffer and give me a shout if I'm online....

hey......if you're gonna be in the ta perchance tonight......i think i may spend my evening there, getting practice....any help from you, cobia, any of the sapp dudes........i'm thinking i'll be there around 9'ish eastern........ :D :aok
ingame 1LTCAP
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S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline Big Rat

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Re: Dogfighting question
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2009, 05:52:43 PM »
CAP, I should be in there tonight around that time, if you want to work on something.  Just look for a Hog :D

 :salute
BigRat 
When you think the fight might be going bad, it already has.
Becoming one with the Hog, is to become one with Greatness, VF-17 XO & training officer BigRat

Offline CAP1

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Re: Dogfighting question
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2009, 05:55:50 PM »
CAP, I should be in there tonight around that time, if you want to work on something.  Just look for a Hog :D

 :salute
BigRat 

will do......

i'm actually still trying to turn that 38 with the little wiggly things. i do ok, but not nearly as well as i feel i should be b now.

 the other thing, is possibly avoiding hi cons. i suck at it....and i've been getting picked a LOT lately by them.

thanks dude!!
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline Belial

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Re: Dogfighting question
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2009, 06:09:23 PM »
i go left i go right i avoid the guns cause fishies dont fight

Offline stealth

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Re: Dogfighting question
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2009, 08:27:56 PM »
i go left i go right i avoid the guns cause fishies dont fight
ok
My Email is ACalex88@gmail.com if you want to contact me

"I shall fear no evil, for I am 80,000 feet and climbing"

Offline A8TOOL

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Re: Dogfighting question
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2009, 02:24:37 AM »
These 3 films may help.

There is a lot of talk about keeping planes in your vector, throttle management and how to get someone off our 6. With throt management comes proper rudder use as well to bleed E that is not mentioned much but should have.

The Throt training film has plenty of kills but Crazierthanu keeps talking through the whole thing. He did not know I was making a training film for my squad but it turned out good anyway.

http://download206.mediafire.com/ztzqumxzmszg/2tkntkwwzjm/%231lag+pursuit.ahf


http://download86.mediafire.com/xzuq2xoomgsg/ztztd0qzzfm/%232Remove+Lance+from+6.ahf


http://download696.mediafire.com/tkdtqhcnkcmg/ibb1zdettzm/%233Throt+manage-lag+pursuit.ahf


http://download393.mediafire.com/2mxwyjm3otwg/dnmjynnbh3t/Throt+training+2_0001.ahf



Learn this maneuver




« Last Edit: August 01, 2009, 02:26:28 AM by A8TOOL »

Offline crazierthanu

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Re: Dogfighting question
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2009, 07:44:48 AM »
These 3 films may help.

There is a lot of talk about keeping planes in your vector, throttle management and how to get someone off our 6. With throt management comes proper rudder use as well to bleed E that is not mentioned much but should have.

The Throt training film has plenty of kills but Crazierthanu keeps talking through the whole thing. He did not know I was making a training film for my squad but it turned out good anyway.

http://download206.mediafire.com/ztzqumxzmszg/2tkntkwwzjm/%231lag+pursuit.ahf


http://download86.mediafire.com/xzuq2xoomgsg/ztztd0qzzfm/%232Remove+Lance+from+6.ahf


http://download696.mediafire.com/tkdtqhcnkcmg/ibb1zdettzm/%233Throt+manage-lag+pursuit.ahf


http://download393.mediafire.com/2mxwyjm3otwg/dnmjynnbh3t/Throt+training+2_0001.ahf



Learn this maneuver


(Image removed from quote.)


Oh Geez, I feel bad  :uhoh
Sorry for screwing up your training film :D (I'm guessing this is a while ago because I havn't flown with the You or the A8's in a while)

EDIT: Holy hell I Squeeked  :O
I forever want this thread to die, no one must know my secret :uhoh
« Last Edit: August 01, 2009, 07:50:15 AM by crazierthanu »
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Offline GhostCDB

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Re: Dogfighting question
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2009, 09:08:54 AM »
simple break in the direction there comeing at you spit9 i suggest its deadly

Don't listen to stealth. Hes a dweeb, and he can't spell OR use correct punctuation. I don't know why he don't use spell check.  :aok
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