Let's make bombing a skill again :)

[TheWobble]

WoW thanks
, all i every wanted was to make it a better game and I realized that what would make it best is SELECTION, that way nobody is left out, and nobody has anyone's will imposed upon them.  I play H2H and design maps for it alot so i think i can yield to the popular opinion because its for the good of most, but in H2H at least i can have my bombs falling everywhere fun, and nobody suffers.  

Thanks of the support Skurj.  

[ispar]

 

Originally posted by -lazs-:
wobble... in the end, fighters allways were there to fight other fighters.   The pretense of escort and attack of buffs was simply to kill fighters.   most fighter missions and personal missions were, to kill other fighters.   It was and is an end unto itself.

Why can't you get escort?   Escort is boring.  We don't play to be bored.  Sorry about that.   So what do you suggest?   You can force escort by making the whole emphisis of the game..... bombing by lone or few bombers.  This is of course hugely unrealistic.   Or, as we do... You can make bombers have an unhistorical and lopsided effect on the fighter war.   If you go with either of these, as we have, then you will have to expect some animosity from the majority of fighter pilots who see bombers as mostly just a pain in the butt.   No fun to escort and no fun to attack with too much affect on the game.

I feel the effect of bombers in the game is lopsided.   I feel they should have less effect on the fighters.   I would be glad to hear what you think should be done and what kind of balance you think would be realistic and fair.
lazs

Huh? Fighters have not always been to kill other fighters... quick history:

WWI. Observers take pictures. Other side sends out scouts to kill observers and get their own info. Other side sends out scouts to kill scouts, who send out other scouts in return. ok...

WWII. Germany builds a strong tactical bomber force, with fighters to PROTECT THE
 BOMBERS. Britain builds fighters to INTERCEPT RAIDERS. Germany later builds fighters to INTERCEPT RAIDERS. USA enters war with fighter to ESCORT AND PROTECT BOMBERS. You getting the picture? Fighters killing fighters is only an element of their basic design. Very few fighters have been designed from the outset to simply kill fighters.

So, hold on... bombers have an unhistorical effect on the fighter war? Oh. So, in other words, your "historically accurate" FURBALLING is ruined because someone is actually trying to get something useful done. Which of course begs proof of the historical accuracy of USAAF, RAF, LW, and IJN planes from 1941 to 1945 all duking it out in a 500 x 500 mile arena, with no plane type restrictions for any of the THREE (3) equally strong/viable/well defended countries!

Gimme a break. I can tell you that when I just started, I was grateful for the ease of bombing. I felt like I could actually accomplish something, instead of making a fool of myself.

[Wlfgng]

God I hate to get into this but can't help myself...  

As a former member of an Escort squadron..
main purpose was to escort bombers..
I found the job tedious and boring.  There
are times when it's necessary and even fun
but mostly.. long periods of boredom.

I think the bomb dispersion idea from height
is a great idea.  I also like the addition of
larger cities, ports, etc as bomb targets.

One other idea is the ME163.  possibly with
the ability to kill only at high alt near HQ.
I really dislike the lone uber-alt buff.

(I know I know.. get ready for reprisal on
that one)

The bombers have thier place but the fact
that they can disable an airfield so easily
quite often distrupts what I like most
about the game..  fighter-fighter combat.
Not so much if it's preperation for taking
over a field, but when it's just the lone
bomber spoiling it for the rest.

I will also add that I do like to sending
a buff down in flames while I dodge thier
recently separated wings!  doiiiing.

[-lazs-]

ispar... you are confusing WWII with a game and most especially with the limitations of an arena setting but.... even granting you your premise.... WWII lone low alt buffs were meat on the table.   High alt buffs had terrible accuracy.... Targets for multi engined buffs were not airfields and airfields did not (typically) get shut down or limited by a single buff.    Plus... with the current setup we have no way to encourage escort/attack and large formations over historical targets.   Perhaps you have a better idea?

wlf.... I agree with your post.   We need more dispertion and better (more realistic) targets with more realistic affect on the game, for buffs.
lazs

[hazed-]

wow i couldnt be bothered to wade throught entire post but i think just putting a realistic wind effect on bombs would solve problem.if its like an archery target and the nearer the better the damage it will be useful to salvo more.would also encourage the use of smaller bombs for acks and larger bombs for hangers, meaning the need for 2 bombers min  
this way the JU88 will shine with its mixed payload  
just think wind effect or a random spread factor would be acceptable..If im close with 1 50kg bomb but might miss i'll drop 2 to be more sure and maybe drop 4x1000lb on a hanger as 2 could be near misses.would this be so bad? what do you think?


hazed

[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 12-03-2000).]

[TheWobble]

Thank you hazed, thats what ive been getting at all along.

[Karnak]

Hazed,
Somebody with the experience of actually dropping the dang things pointed out that wind does not significantly effect the falling path's of bombs.

Arrow = slow object with high surface area to mass ratio

Bombs = fast object with very low surface area to mass ratio

The only thing that significantly effects the bomb's fall path is the motion (yaw, pitch, roll and forward velocity) of the dropping aircraft.

Sisu
-Karnak

[Jigster]

 http://www.dogfighter.com/briefs/show.php3?brief=939059554

Guess the intended plan fell through  

[TheWobble]

Kernak,
Its not so much the wind but the fact that when real bombs leave the bay they are woobleing and if its a tight salvo even banging into eachother (which is why they arm a while after dropping) that is what makes them drift apart and disperse, the wind affets too but no so much as the inital pitch an yaw of the bomb itself.  If the aerodynamice in AH are modeled right all HTC would have to do is give the bombs alittle jiggle and shake as they come out of the bay (which is normal) and aerodynamics would take care of the rest.  Watch a WW2 video of bombers dropping ord when the bomb come out they are eather tight ow widley spaced, the wide spaced one the bombs wobble and shake a bit, the tight salvos the bomb clang into eachother and all kinds of stuff.  That sure would look neat as opposed to the perfect lines ya see now.