109G-10 and K-4

[Elp]

Veltro,
Please, give us your sources about Me-109 K series. Look, if you have some cool data about it whit you, you should share it whit us!

[This message has been edited by Elp (edited 03-27-2000).]

[veltro]

 

give us your sources about Me-109 K series. Look, if you have some cool data about it whit you, you should share it whit us!

Elp, my friend, bien sur!
We can start with "Messerschmitt Bf 109K" by Ing. Ales Janda and Ing. Tomas Poruba. Published by JaPo

This is a fabulous, one-stop reference for the Bf 109K. It contains reference photos, line drawings, scrap views, colour
profiles and much more. If you only have one reference for the Bf 109K, this is the one to look for! Number one work and first class stuff.

Then we can continue with "Messerschmitt Bf 109 F, G, & K Series - An Illustrated Study"
by Jochen Prien/Peter Rodeike
1993 Schiffer, ISBN: 0-88740-818-4

It was the culmination of a years of studies of two of the most talented German aviation researchers. Lot of photographs, historical and technical details.

Then there is "Les Messerschmitt Bf 109 G-1 a K-4 - Moteurs et Amenagements" by Jean-Claude Mermet, date and ISBN not quoted.
Self Published by the Author.

Probably the most revolutionary study of the latest years on late-series Bf 109s.

Last but not least there is the Close-Up n.16 CU 16 "Bf 109 K" By T.H. Hitchcock, ISBN: 0-914144-16-2, published in 1979.

Although the oldest of the four works, in it the author corrected some of the wrong statements about the "K" that had appeared in his world-famous "O-Nine-Gallery".

Apart from these books, a visit to the Bundesarchiv Freiburg, Germany and a check among the Luftwaffe loss data, aircraft delivery data and other original material for 1945 should be enlightening to realize that only the K-4 was operational...  

No particular "cool data", but only hard historical research and passion.

Hope this has been of some help.

All the best and... L'E' BUNA!

    _/_/_/_/
   _/ Ferdinando 'veltro' D'Amico
  _/_/_/'PR' of 4° Stormo Caccia
 _/e-mail: veltro@warbirds.org
_/

[Elp]

I believe you have information on the performance of the Me109 that I do not have, so please, give us a hand. Well, the subject of this discussion could be summarized in one question: is Me-109K4 far superior to Me-109G10?
The secondary discussion is: which variants of "K" series had really produced?
So, I ask you: according to yours bibliographical sources, could you make a comparison between the two models ( G10 and K4 )?
Thanks in advance  

PS: are you talking about this book: http://www.eagle-editions.com/M_Bf109k.htm  ?

[Pongo]

The same.
This was made clear by pyro long ago in beta. He chose the g10 because it wasnt in other sims but was equivilent to the K4.
All credible sources I have back up this position on the relative capabilities of the G10 and the K4


------------------
Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

[veltro]

 

this discussion could be summarized in one question: is Me-109K4 far superior to Me-109G10?
The secondary discussion is: which variants of "K" series had really produced?

The G-10 was in reality nothing more than a stop-gap project destined to bring many Bf 109 G-6 and G-14 up to K-4 standard, by equipping the old planes with a new DB 605D engine, new tail, new wings (where necessary) and a lot of other details. The result was a "patchwork" version that, however, operated up to K-4 standards.

The only visual differences between the K-4 and the G-10 were aestetical ones: change of position of the D/F loop and the fuel panel, retracting tailwheel, outside undercarriage retractable panels (deleted almost totally in the operational unis); the standard cannon of the G-10 still was the MG 151/20, while it was a 30mm MK108 on the K-4, but about 3,350 out of the almost 6,000 G-10s built were realized in the /U4 variant with the MK108 cannon, so also in this respect they were similar...

Notwithstanding the similarity, official data recorded by the General Luftzeugmeisters/C-E2 on 1 November 1944 reported for the K-4 an average advantage of 15/20 Km/h in speed, as you can see by the enclosed tables

 

I am no engineer and I have no technical explaination for this, but it was apparently so. Hope these data can be useful. Personally, I don't know if such an advantage was mantained also in operational use ad if it would justify the introduction of the new variant...

 

PS: are you talking about this book: http://www.eagle-editions.com/M_Bf109k.htm  ?

Exactly!  

All the best and ... L'E' BUNA !

     _/_/_/_/
    _/ Ferdinando 'veltro' D'Amico
   _/_/_/'PR' of 4 Stormo Caccia
  _/e-mail: veltro@warbirds.org
 _/

[Elp]

Thanks, Veltro, you help a lot whit Generalluftzeugmeisters data  .
We can conclude Me-109G10 and Me-K4 have the quite same performance, so K8's discussion is merely a historic one, becase if K4 and G10 are very similar, so G10 whit gondolas and K8 are similar too.

[Vermillion]

An interesting point is that our G10's performance (the Aces High one), actually matches the historical performance of the K4 listed in Veltro's table. Which is better than the historical G10 listed in the table.

So is our G10 a little too good, and needs tweaked down ??  

Just kidding guys.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[veltro]

 

We can conclude Me-109G10 and Me-K4 have the quite same performance, so K8's discussion is merely a historic one, becase if K4 and G10 are very similar, so G10 whit gondolas and K8 are similar too.

Nice to have been of help...  

May I correct the above statement and add a part of my reply which remained in my keyboard? Good.

K-8 discussion was and is a "theorical" one, no K-8 being ever built.

To define once for all this matter:

K-2 = one prototype built;

K-6 = one prototype built.

These were the "other" K-series built, apart from the K-4. As for the sources, you already have them...  

All the very best

L'E' BUNA !

_/_/_/_/
_/ Ferdinando 'veltro' D'Amico
_/_/_/'PR' of 4 Stormo Caccia
_/e-mail: veltro@warbirds.org
_/