Spit 16 observations (much ado about nothing)

[Anaxogoras]

Duly noted. Still, my point stands - better to improve (whether it's ACM, smarter flying, or plane choice) than to complain. For whatever reason, a bunch of us choose not to "improve" our plane choice (myself included), you've just listed more reasons why we don't.

What do you mean by "improve our plane choice?"

[boomerlu]

What do you mean by "improve our plane choice?"

I mean choose a plane that is "better" in some (or many) way. I'm not trying to pick a fight here.

[Anaxogoras]

Well, I don't think the Spit XVI is best in any absolute sense.  Its good points are magnified in a low altitude dueling situation.  For multi-vs-multi engagements, with plenty of room below, the traditional BnZ aircraft are better, e.g. P-51, 190D-9, etc.

I mean choose a plane that is "better" in some (or many) way. I'm not trying to pick a fight here.

Don't worry.  I'm not the type to rip into someone just because.

[boomerlu]

Well, I don't think the Spit XVI is best in any absolute sense.  Its good points are magnified in a low altitude dueling situation.  For multi-vs-multi engagements, with plenty of room below, the traditional BnZ aircraft are better, e.g. P-51, 190D-9, etc.

Ahh your point was just that "better" is situational. Yeah, several planes are faster than it, several planes are better armed, etc etc.

What I mean is simply this: instead of a pilot complaining about the Spixteen, he/she would be better served [1] Becoming a better pilot. [2] Exercising better tactical judgment (ie not flying stupidly) [3] Simply giving in and flying the Spixteen (assuming the pilot's too lazy to do [1] or [2]).

Don't worry.  I'm not the type to rip into someone just because.

All right, no problem them.

From where I was sitting it sounded like I had insulted your favorite ride and you were out to angrily defend it . I've had this happen in a variety of different contexts (music for example), and the question that sets up the angry defense is usually along the lines of "What do you mean by "better"?"

Whenever I hear words like that I go into paranoid mode .

[Yarbles]

I am not sure the 16 is the easiest to get kills in. On paper yes and then the 8. However on paper it would be the 14 which is a major handfull just when it comes to aiming apart from all its other quirks. Perhaps the 9 is infact the best balance and in my experience the best of the lot. With a perk value of 20 and no Flak from other players thrown in  .

Sure its less able to run than the other 3 but you are also less likely to tear your wings off and more likely to score hits which mean you dont have to run in the first place. Its also by far the best high up in my opinion. The 14 is definately your man on paper here but in practice its very difficult again to hit anything with its built in instability.   

[Anaxogoras]

I am not sure the 16 is the easiest to get kills in. On paper yes and then the 8. However on paper it would be the 14 which is a major handfull just when it comes to aiming apart from all its other quirks. Perhaps the 9 is infact the best balance and in my experience the best of the lot. With a perk value of 20 and no Flak from other players thrown in  .

Sure its less able to run than the other 3 but you are also less likely to tear your wings off and more likely to score hits which mean you dont have to run in the first place. Its also by far the best high up in my opinion. The 14 is definately your man on paper here but in practice its very difficult again to hit anything with its built in instability.   

If you quantified the degrees of yaw and pitch bounce that occur when you try to hold the nose on a single point, the XIV would not be so great on paper anymore.  It's only because we don't attempt to put a number on that characteristic that you can say the XIV looks better on paper than it is in fact.

[Saurdaukar]

I havent flown the 14 since it was "fixed."

Will have to give it a whirl tonight.

[Yarbles]

If you quantified the degrees of yaw and pitch bounce that occur when you try to hold the nose on a single point, the XIV would not be so great on paper anymore.  It's only because we don't attempt to put a number on that characteristic that you can say the XIV looks better on paper than it is in fact.

Exactly:aok

[palef]

I saw one today. For real.

[waystin2]

I havent flown the 14 since it was "fixed."

Will have to give it a whirl tonight.

I have found it to be a bit longer legged, and more enjoyable since the fix.  Get her slow though and she is till that awful untamed beast we all remember!

[Yarbles]

I have found it to be a bit longer legged, and more enjoyable since the fix.  Get her slow though and she is till that awful untamed beast we all remember!

I get k/d 2:1 in the 9 but barely 1:1 in the 14 even atacking high bombers.

Can't hit stuff in the 14 for some reason, maybe I am going to fast but I find it hard to get the guns to bare on the target for more than a split second. 9 seems like the best gun platform by a long way of them all.

Seafire handles the best for me as I rarely fly the 5 but the seafire lacks the pace for the MA particularly the climb rate.

I think our 9 has an earlier engine than the 8 and 16 and that is why its slower. Ok up at 25k it may have an edge and maybe thats all it is but I think it benefits from the lack of power in many situations if your not an ace.

[Saurdaukar]

Well, I don't think the Spit XVI is best in any absolute sense.  

True - its not the best plane in any absolute sense.  However, the sum of its parts makes it what it is.

Consider, for arguments sake, that it doesnt do any single 'thing' as well as another plane in the set.  The 190A5 can outroll it, the 109K4 can out climb it, the P-51D can out-zoom it, the P47D can out-dive it and the A6M2 can out-turn it.

The reason the 16 is so deadly is because it can do *everything* at 95%.  Every other aircraft listed above has, with the exception of the positive trait mentioned, one or several areas of performance which are markedly inferior.

In simple terms, again - the 16 has no glaring weakness. 

Pilots being equal, each of the above aircraft has a single tactic to employ against the 16 with a chance of success.  The inverse is not so.  The 16 has a myriad of tactics - many of which can be deployed at the drop of a hat - to counter any then current disadvantage.

[Shuffler]

lol yarb's post made me check my k/d. It is 3.7 (most all in the 38)

Comparing k/d to your previous months may be ok, but don't try comparing to others as it is a poor way to compare unless you know if they fly like you do or in the same aircraft.

[Steve]

lol yarb's post made me check my k/d. It is 3.7 (most all in the 38)

Comparing k/d to your previous months may be ok, but don't try comparing to others as it is a poor way to compare unless you know if they fly like you do or in the same aircraft.

I give a rat's arse about your K/D, noob!  I just know  I have fun flying with you and your ilk.

[BnZs]

True - its not the best plane in any absolute sense.  However, the sum of its parts makes it what it is.

Consider, for arguments sake, that it doesnt do any single 'thing' as well as another plane in the set.  The 190A5 can outroll it,

Nope. According to the roll rate figures, SpitXVI rolls better somewhat better at 200mph IAS. The 190A5 rolls somewhat better at 300mph IAS. Call it a wash.

the 109K4 can out climb it,

Keep in mind that in actual combat, the SpitXVI's lighter wingloading and thus E-retention under Gs will make it perform *better* in the E-fight than on paper. Again, call it a wash.

the P-51D can out-zoom it

This is false. When I tested various fighters in vertical zooms starting at 400mph from the deck, there was no significant and repeatable trend in height regained. From 400mph every type I tested could be zoomed to 6000 feet and some hundreds of feet before stall. The sole exception was for the P-38, owing to that airplanes ability to zoom to almost no airspeed easily. Even that edge was only a few hundred feet above the single engine jobs, on average. Of course, once again, in actual combat from an equal footing as opposed to artificial zoom tests, the SpitXVI's  thrust/weight and E-retention under Gs will put it way ahead of what it does "on paper" in vertical fighting.