Perk The Dora Campaign!!!

[Dune]

Verm, Osprey's "P-47 Aces of the 8th AF" lists the intro date for 56th FG -47M's as Jan 45.  But it took several weeks to discover that the planes hadn't been properly weather-proofed and they suffered reliability problems.  This caused the 56th to fly mixed missions (-47D's and -47M's) until early Mar when they went completely to -47M's.

As for the P-47N, the first P-47N's arrived on Okinawa in Mar 45 with the 318th FG. Later the 413th and 507th FG's arrived in the Pacific by Jun 45.  The 318th itself scored 48 kills in the last week of May in P-47N's to the loss of just 3 planes. From what I have read, P-47N's produced at least 10 aces and scored over 150 kills between the FG's that flew it.


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Lt Col Dune
X.O. 352nd Fighter Group
"The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"

"Credo quia absurdum est." (I believe it because it is unreasonable)
- The motto of the Republic of Baja Arizona

[Vermillion]

My point was that the P47M/N (The N model was basically M with added wing tanks and a slightly different turbosupercharger)does not fit into the category of "only saw service in the last 2 maybe 3 months of the war in numbers that barely break the teens".

Total time of service in combat, and total numbers of aircraft produced, are very comparable or exceed some of the aircraft we currently have in the game, or some of the aircraft that are screamed for repeatedly. For instance the Spit XIV, the 190D9, and the Me109K4.

All that is different, is the mindset.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

Actally the N also had a whole new wing with a 1 foot extension in the wingroots and squared off wingtips, a new extension infront of the fin/rudder and some other changes I cant quite remember right now.

thanks GRUNHERZ

[Vermillion]

*sigh* fine,  forget about the M totally

Does it change my point above about the comparison between the others (190D9, Spit XIV, and 109k4)?

No.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[StSanta]

It fundamentally changes the point. In just the same way changing the paintwork on a car fundamentally changes its driving characteristics.

I really expected more of you Verm.

   

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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime

[jmccaul]

The problem is people look at planes as how they compare to the current planeset and as such the only true '44 throughbreds are the 51 and G10 that is why when you mention planes such as the 47N or spit 14 you get - it's too good but the arena wouldn't be unbalanced if there was Ki 84's, Tempest V's, 47 N's , 51D , G10's, Spit 14's, 190 D9's, Yak 3's and, La 7's.  

[Vermillion]

 

In just the same way changing the paintwork on a car fundamentally changes its driving characteristics.

Hey I have factory test data that says black cars are 0.00238 mph faster than the standard fire engine red.

Now fire engine red with an extra coat of wax.... BUT they didn't use extra wax until after the war  

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[RAM]

Black cars are clearly overmodelled  

[pzvg]

eveyboddie noes red uns go fasta  

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[SnakeEyes]

Ram:

You mentioned some time ago that the ME262 was "numerous"... that depends... there were about 1500 that sat on the ground... but only about 300 that ever flew in combat.

Dat ain't too numerous if ya ask me.  

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by SnakeEyes:
Ram:

You mentioned some time ago that the ME262 was "numerous"... that depends... there were about 1500 that sat on the ground... but only about 300 that ever flew in combat.

Dat ain't too numerous if ya ask me.    

Where did you find that number?...I have read several times that the number of 262s that saw combat was near 700.

Anyway how many F4U1Cs saw combat?  



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-26-2000).]

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
 Where did you find that number?...I have read several times that the number of 262s that saw combat was near 700.

Anyway how many F4U1Cs saw combat?    

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-26-2000).]

Ah life will be great once the 262's get here...

I can hear it know...all the whining from the poor luftwobbles when they get blasted.

If you wanna fly a flying gas tank, with fire warning lights buzzin all over the cockpit I guess dats your business  

Just think...one hit from a Buff .50 and fwooom   before the poor 262 gets into range  

 


- Jig

[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 08-26-2000).]

[SnakeEyes]

 

Altogether between 1400 and 1500 Me262's were built, or in some form of construction at the close of the war.   Out of this number,  only about 300 saw active service.  The remainder were grounded due to either fuel shortages, conversion to bomber status at Hitler's command, spare parts, or more importantly-trained pilots.

From  http://www.stormbirds.com/schwalbe/history/history2.htm

To examine the background of this website (as they do not provide any online references/footnoting) see this page:   http://www.stormbirds.com/common/cadre.htm ... as a result, my feeling is that this information is accurate.

With regard to the F4U-1C, that isn't germaine to this conversation.  I'm merely countering the contention that the 262 was widely used (in particular, your statement that "...then the Me262 should be in the regular planeset, because it was very numerous..."  

That's the _only_ thing I was commenting on (the number of 262s that saw combat)... no more and no less.

PS - I know that you're not really making the argument that the 262 should be a regular aircraft because it was "numerous and in use"... I'm just pointing out that it wasn't all that numerous from an operational combat sortie standpoint.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 08-27-2000).]

[RAM]

Nice info, SnakeEyes   Thanks.

The F4U1-C thing was of course tongue-in-cheek  

Jigster...lol. Give us a Me262 with R4M rockets and then we will see who is in standoff distance, the B17 or the 262  

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
Nice info, SnakeEyes   Thanks.

The F4U1-C thing was of course tongue-in-cheek  

Jigster...lol. Give us a Me262 with R4M rockets and then we will see who is in standoff distance, the B17 or the 262  

Yo dude that 262 DID have R4M rockets, thats why he's missing a wing  

- Jig