Author Topic: unlearning bad habits  (Read 3647 times)

Offline Getback

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2009, 11:53:09 AM »
As far as old dogs go, I have learned so much in the last few months With Ghosth's and Morfend's help and I am 55. BTW I have flown since 1996 and still needed help.

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Offline morfiend

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2009, 12:26:33 PM »
 Lagger,

 There's been much good advice given to you,I dont think I can add much to it!

 I would ask though,why are you concerned with your stats? If your having fun,escaping from RL etc. what does it matter?Afterall it's just a game.

 The 1 thing I'd add to the advice already given to you is,you wont learn in the MA,you've already said you can preform the maneuvers that constantly kill you so why not spend dome time practicing those moves?

 A couple hours in the TA will do more for your flying than getting shot down in the MA,also it's not nearly as frustrating.

  Work on your ACM,practice shooting and get a general feel for the what, where and when of said ACM and I can guarantee you that you'll see improvements in no time!


   :salute

Offline Karnak

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2009, 01:44:39 PM »
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Yeah, I thought that too when I read the first responder's advice.  Why do people insist on thinking Spitfires are slow and have poor altitude performance?
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Offline BnZs

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2009, 01:54:34 PM »
Yeah, I thought that too when I read the first responder's advice.  Why do people insist on thinking Spitfires are slow and have poor altitude performance?

Um, because of you? Also that They have wings made of crackjack boxes, their guns run out of ammo before you can say marmelade, they don't have enough fuel to make the pattern, and anyone is lucky to get a k/d of 1:1 in them.   ;) :devil
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 02:05:12 PM by BnZs »
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Offline Blooz

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2009, 02:50:47 PM »
Yeah, I thought that too when I read the first responder's advice.  Why do people insist on thinking Spitfires are slow and have poor altitude performance?

I looked at his stats. He dies more to Seafires and Spit 9's than he does from 8's and 16's. He obviously knows they are more powerful planes and already avoids them when he can.

On the deck the Hellcat has no problem outrunning the Seafire, Spits 5, 9, Hurricanes, Zero's and Zekes. Those are the planes he gets killed by more than anything else.

It's not a question of fancy flying tricks he needs. He needs to change his attitude toward wanting to live through the sortie rather than just giving up and getting killed because, "oh well, it's just a game". With that attitude you don't improve. He just needs a little knowledge about what his Hellcat can do versus other planes.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 02:53:46 PM by Blooz »
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Offline boomerlu

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2009, 03:07:35 PM »
Also BnZ fighting doesn't have to be utterly boring. Instead of straight BnZ, you can transition it to energy fighting with a well planned rope after the first one or two passes. A shallow spiral climb works well with better climbing planes (won't work very well for F6F) starting Co-E.

There's nothing wrong with a knife fight, you just have to use whatever advantages you have. For example, if I'm going K4 vs Hurri, I know I'm going to die in any kind of a turn fight. Instead I'll either rope or spiral climb him and use my energy to gain a reversal. I'm still actively fighting, but it's a bit more conservative than going fangs out because I know I'm pretty much guaranteed to die if I play the Hurri's game.

For the F6F, you don't have any real advantages vs a Spit 9 other than turn radius with flaps and durability. Looks like you're going to have to sucker the Spit into a scissoring fight and use your tighter turn radius with a few notches of flaps to nail him. Or if the F6F turns quickly enough with a few notches, you might be able to beat him in a nose-tail fight (but that will generally be a long drawn out affair).
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Offline lagger86

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2009, 04:47:34 PM »
Lagger,

 There's been much good advice given to you,I dont think I can add much to it!

 I would ask though,why are you concerned with your stats? If your having fun,escaping from RL etc. what does it matter?Afterall it's just a game.

 The 1 thing I'd add to the advice already given to you is,you wont learn in the MA,you've already said you can preform the maneuvers that constantly kill you so why not spend dome time practicing those moves?

 A couple hours in the TA will do more for your flying than getting shot down in the MA,also it's not nearly as frustrating.

  Work on your ACM,practice shooting and get a general feel for the what, where and when of said ACM and I can guarantee you that you'll see improvements in no time!


   :salute


Yeah I agree morfiend, when I used to play a lot I'd go into the TA regularly and work on little things here and there. I used to do much better than I do now.....coincidence? I think not :)

 Also I have never been concerned with rank, score, or anything like that....I couldn't care less actually. I just meant that I would look at my hit% as a reference to see if I'm hitting anything, however I'll strafe buildings in fighter mode and de ack.... so I guess that stat is misleading as well(much like rank in general).

Overall I enjoy playing AH and I'm just trying to refocus on exactly what people have been sharing in this thread.

 again, thanks to everyone who has taken the time to give advice.

Lagger
Lagger

Offline lagger86

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2009, 06:12:40 PM »


It's not a question of fancy flying tricks he needs. He needs to change his attitude toward wanting to live through the sortie rather than just giving up and getting killed because, "oh well, it's just a game".


 Blooz, I think that is the exactly right. I didn't catch that until just now.  :salute


I often fly into hordes off a carrier knowing there is little chance of survival and don't really care, however I don't see that changing because it is just too fun. That is why I usually get dirty with the Zekes, but again that is fun for me. However when I do get some alt coming in, that is when I would like to fly a little longer. That is where I need to focus and fly with some sort of plan. That is where I need to fix my bad habits.

 :cheers:
Lagger


Lagger

Offline Gryffin

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2009, 03:02:15 AM »
I don't HO(because silat told me not to a long time ago)

I would suggest starting here. All the BS about how head on shots are bad is a pet peeve of mine. The goal of air combat is to make bullets from your plane hit their plane. The angle of said shot is completely irrelevant. Yes, it is generally not a good idea to go for the head on shot, but 99.9% of the people whining about it have no idea why. It has nothing to do with some "code" ... it is because you are wasting the opportunity for a lead turn. The goal at the merge should be to get separation to allow an aggressive lead turn back into the opponent, or if you believe they have significantly more speed than you, to turn away from them and get them to overshoot. If the opponent wants to go for the head on shot you can gain an easy 45-90 degree on him right at the merge and gain the upper hand. Once you master the lead turn, you will be complaining if people DON'T go for the head on shot!

With a well timed lead turn:
- It is impossible for an opponent going for a head on shot to land bullets on you (the trick is to roll slightly as you think they are in guns range). In fact, if he is determined to point his nose at you you can control which direction he will turn. usually it is a good idea stay below them and make them turn nose low, since their turn radius at the bottom of the turn will be larger than yours.
- You can gain a huge angular advantage at the merge, putting the opponent at the disadvantage.

The trick is figuring out which one of these 3 you are facing:
- Someone who goes for the head on shot ... (noob who doesn't understand lead turns)
- Someone who avoids the head on shot because it is "bad" and the mean people on the forums will make fun of them (noob who doesn't understand lead turns)
- Someone who avoids the head on shot because they are aggressively turning at the merge (you should watch out for these people ... and strive to become one).

I think that there are three separate sets of skills needed to be successful in this game. The first is being able to out manoeuvre someone, the second is being able to put bullets on target, and the last is fighting in a crowded airspace.

In the main arena I think the biggest trick is to keep track of the situation around you. It is pretty rare to find yourself in a 1v1, it is more likely, especially during peak times that you will have a numbers advantage or disadvantage at any moment. It is important to regularly check the darbars in your sector, and all the sectors around yours, keeping track of who has the strength in numbers,  who had the alt advantage at that moment, and regularly looking around. It also helps if you choose to attack a base that is isolated on at least one side, for example if it is on the coast. That limits the number of directions you have to keep track of. I probably have the map open more than 75% of the time as I am flying, trying to get a feel for where a fight is going to go. Every 10-20 seconds I will put it away, look around, then bring it out again. This is also a good way to get a feel for when a tasty vulch is about to develop!

Also take note of landmarks and the sun when you are entering a fight so that you can dive away from trouble in the right direction without having to open the map. Trying to dive away but going in the wrong direction is a sure way to get ganged in this game!

More than anything else, I have found that getting films of expert players and watching them from as many angles as I could helped me more than anything else. In particular, taking note of flaps, rudder, power changes, etc. Another useful thing that I still do occasionally is to go offline and shoot drones for 10 or 20 minutes for all different speeds and angles.

Another tip is to take note on the E6B page of your plane's weight. Look at it with full ammo and fuel, half ammo and fuel and almost empty. In some planes the difference can be over a ton. It is amazing how much of an affect that weight has on the performance of the plane. Weight is everything! I have out turned spit 16s in a P47 that had almost no ammo or fuel left. Whichever plane I am in, I usually have target weights for each type of flying. For example, at X weight it is high speed passes only. At Y weight I can turn aggressively to get kills, but I try to keep my speed up and be picky about who I choose to attack. At Z weight I can get down and dirty and make speed sacrificing turns (usually just the last couple of minutes before I am out of fuel and ammo). If I am headed home and get bounced and decide that I probably wont see anyone else, I will cook off most of my ammo to lighten the plane, just leave enough for the 1 kill. As I said, weight is everything! It also helps to use a bit of detective work to judge how heavy your opponent might be. For example, if you are near their base and they are just taking off, you can be pretty confident that they are fairly heavy.

I hope this helps. More than anything else, practice, do some reading on tactics and ACM on the various websites (like the excellent netaces.org), and watch a lot of films!

Offline lagger86

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2009, 08:33:42 PM »
I would suggest starting here. All the BS about how head on shots are bad is a pet peeve of mine. The goal of air combat is to make bullets from your plane hit their plane. The angle of said shot is completely irrelevant. Yes, it is generally not a good idea to go for the head on shot, but 99.9% of the people whining about it have no idea why. It has nothing to do with some "code" ... it is because you are wasting the opportunity for a lead turn. The goal at the merge should be to get separation to allow an aggressive lead turn back into the opponent, or if you believe they have significantly more speed than you, to turn away from them and get them to overshoot. If the opponent wants to go for the head on shot you can gain an easy 45-90 degree on him right at the merge and gain the upper hand. Once you master the lead turn, you will be complaining if people DON'T go for the head on shot!




When I think of a HO, I think of flying directly at someone co-alt with the sole intention of shooting them in the face. When you get two pilots doing that, I think that situation is a legit super hoing experience. That is what I don't do anymore. When I said "I don't HO because Silat told me not to" I was being a bit sarcastic, although he did tell me that, and explained the reasoning behind it. That explanation was quite similar to yours Gryffin. That is one bit of advice I took in and applied to my flying. Using a somewhat head on situation has helped with merges because I can either use it as a way to gain an advantage on a lead turn, or dive through it and disengage depending on the situation. After a cold merge(even just on my part) is where I need to just shoot and throw the whole misconception of a HO out, I have a bad habit of giving up shots in a good 1v1 because I deem them head on when they're really not....and that is just stupid on my part.

  The rest of your post is certainly some food for thought, I have never thought about a lot of the things you pointed out.

 :salute
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 08:35:55 PM by lagger86 »
Lagger

Offline Ghosth

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2009, 06:51:19 AM »
While it may not be a generally agreed on explanation, to me a HO is 2 guys both going nose to nose from a distance, say behind 2k. It is looked down on because it is a low or no skill option.

While any shot after the first merge is a "hot merge" or a front quarter shot in a maneuver fight.
Since both opponents are maneuvering by definition it is not a HO. And it should carry no stigma.

Granted you may get some shots in a E fight with fast planes that are tough to say HO or not HO.
But anytime someone has to turn to get guns on target your clearly out of the HO definition.

That being said, sure, everyone may do it sometimes.
The difference is the low/no skill dweeb will always do it.
Thats where the stigma comes from. That and the lack of skill required to get a kill that way.

Offline wgmount

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2009, 12:05:38 AM »
Hi,

I am not a good pilot but I have been getting better. Mostly I think is patience. If there is a furball get up to about 12-15k and look around you. Work the edges and when you attack do it toward friendlies and your base. When you dive down on a target get completely away from the furball and keep a lookout behind you get your alt back then go back to the furball work on the planes that are low and slow or coming back up. When they get to the top of the climb is a good time to pick'em. I try to stalk my prey for a little before going down to see what he is doing. I still usually get low and slow and target fixated then sometimes let someone slip up and kill me but it is getting less frequent. If you are outnumbered the BnZ style of attack is your only option the TnB will only get you back to the tower fast.
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Offline SkyRock

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2009, 08:35:04 AM »
Yes blooz you are correct, I do fight against planes that I know can out turn me. It's so much fun...but that is one of my bad habits. I really need to stop doing that.

 I thank you for your response
 Lagger. :salute


hellcats have a distinct adv over zekes, they are faster... now, this doesn't mean you have to just run... quite the contrary, here is how I fight zekes in larger planes including the hellcat...

1st scenario-(safe bet)  you see a co-alt zeke at 5000 yards... nose down and into your enemy...  be conscience of your speed, you are trying to get as much as possible preferably 400+ before merge..... as you pass, zoom climb, and do a slow vertical drag.... when the zeke turns and attempts to climb up to you, he will have exhausted much of his E, and you will have saved yours.. then as your AS gets to just at 200, make an up to the right and flap yourself over on top of him and flame him!

2nd scenario- (risky) same as first encounter except when you dive to merge with him, drain all of your E. rudder, flaps, anything you can do to keep your speed around 240-280... when you pass, if the zeke doesnt expend his E, he will be too fast to turn with you at the bottom... simply cut throttle when he goes by, and pull a hard G blackout turn up and to the right, (be sure to keep a small window in the blackout) and pull around and you should have one snapshot on him before you loose this created advantage. 

hope this helps,

Mark

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Offline Ardy123

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2009, 01:22:54 PM »
hellcats have a distinct adv over zekes, they are faster... now, this doesn't mean you have to just run... quite the contrary, here is how I fight zekes in larger planes including the hellcat...

1st scenario-(safe bet)  you see a co-alt zeke at 5000 yards... nose down and into your enemy...  be conscience of your speed, you are trying to get as much as possible preferably 400+ before merge..... as you pass, zoom climb, and do a slow vertical drag.... when the zeke turns and attempts to climb up to you, he will have exhausted much of his E, and you will have saved yours.. then as your AS gets to just at 200, make an up to the right and flap yourself over on top of him and flame him!

2nd scenario- (risky) same as first encounter except when you dive to merge with him, drain all of your E. rudder, flaps, anything you can do to keep your speed around 240-280... when you pass, if the zeke doesnt expend his E, he will be too fast to turn with you at the bottom... simply cut throttle when he goes by, and pull a hard G blackout turn up and to the right, (be sure to keep a small window in the blackout) and pull around and you should have one snapshot on him before you loose this created advantage. 

hope this helps,

Mark

What about fighting f4u4s? they have the power to follow you up and when they get slow... the flaps come out... I have yet to find a safe way to tame that monster. esp when they are piloted by someone who has lazer-like aim with the 50s who can hit you from 600+ out np.

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Offline SkyRock

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Re: unlearning bad habits
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2009, 01:43:22 PM »
What about fighting f4u4s? they have the power to follow you up and when they get slow... the flaps come out... I have yet to find a safe way to tame that monster. esp when they are piloted by someone who has lazer-like aim with the 50s who can hit you from 600+ out np.


I was replying how to fight zekes, which was oneof his concerns.  If I were in a hellcat and had to fight a 4-hog, I would dive to deck giving the hog my 6 from 1000 to 800 out, I would cut throttle and force an overshoot using angles, and blast him right in his sixspot! :aok

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