PC Version Modern Warfare 2; Too Many Hacks to Enjoy MP?

[Chalenge]

This is just like online play in AH to me. You go in as a noob and get killed by someone in a good bushwacking spot.. and then again.... and again... eventually you shoot first and check later. Then a noob comes in and thinks he has found a good bushwacking spot that everyone else grenades or sprays as a precaution and then he starts yelling 'hack.'

Noobs! 

[1pLUs44]

PS3 is more expensive overall. 1 year of gold membership to Xbox live is about 30 pounds sterling. PS3 costs alot more than 30 pounds over an Xbox elite. Added to that, the PS3 network is flawed in some ways that often makes online gaming less attractive. The Xbox network is, by and large, a better connection and smoother graphics on HD monitor.

Xbox also has Forza Motorsport 3: best driving game ever made. If you doubt that then you clearly have not played it   

Have Forza Motorsport 2 I think. I love it.

[allaire]

Better semi old news.  The people that pirated the game are getting a better MP playing experience than the people that payed.  Does this strike anyone else as somewhat silly?

[OOZ662]

Better semi old news.  The people that pirated the game are getting a better MP playing experience than the people that payed.  Does this strike anyone else as somewhat silly?

I think it's hilarious and a good testament to not trying to screw over the PC community.

[Spikes]

I think it's hilarious and a good testament to not trying to screw over the PC community.

Rightly so!

[FiLtH]

   I dont waste my time on those games online. Too many of "Them" on there.

[Viperius]

Nothing compares to Starsiege Tribes, probably the best online shooter there was. 


ack-ack

Shazbot!
I couldn't agree more ack-ack.

And for the folks who missed the greatest 2 fps games there ever were, here a few movies, no aimbots just pure skill.

Tribes 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qY8s7X-f30
Tribes 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOLmvS9lYJw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BjW1kN9P9k

[Wolfala]

I think it's hilarious and a good testament to not trying to screw over the PC community.

Wait...WHAT?! How the diddly is that justification? The dev's go where the money is. PC, there isn't any at this point. Examine units sold on PC vs Console. now before I get flamed - think about the economics. A decent rig to run anything you are spending $1500 every 3 years. A console with a dedicated piece of hardware to run nothing but bouncing Konami kids playing dance dance revolution is $200.

I'm sorry, but you can't compete with that. Especially if you can sell 5 or 10 times the units for every PC out there that is interested. Its simply comes down to volume. Do I think its a sad state of affairs? Yes absolutely - I believe the PC offers a better experience in terms of fidelity then a console can ever offer. But the cost per unit you can't bring down to a compeditive level if a 10 year old wants a game. He won't spend 1500 on a system to run 1 thing. he might spend 300 + 60 for the game to get it running.

And as a side:  This was done years ago by my old friend kevin, the current host of G4TV. It still applies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67_ymNo2QVo

[Oogly50]

Don't know what you play usually but that will never work in an FPS like CoD or Counter Strike, by my observation
It's just like Aces High, except there are people with far less amounts of 'life' who play. People are really ridiculously 'good' and any way to game the game is not looked down upon rather accepted and encouraged. FPS's are all reflexes and no thought.

Just my experience. That's why I don't play FPS.

I'm afraid I have to disagree. 

If you take a team that calls positions, flanks, takes positions and trust each other to achieve their goal, you will see a VERY large difference than a team that just solo's it and runs around shooting things.


As much as you will hate to hear this, there is a mildly-strategic element to call of duty if you play with your friends.  My friends and I have formed a "clan" that just plays against random people in matchmaking using various tactics and techniques that the military uses in real life.  I don't believe we have lost a game ever since we got our act together. 

You should see us play in CTF matches.  Imagine an entire road with hidden teammates in the buildings as you run the flag down the street with all the cover fire in the world you could ever need. 
We have our gameplay strategies down.  It's why we win. 


So, to get back on topic.  Every FPS has the mindless drone stage that any average player uses. 
However, there ARE people who play strategically and with thought.  You just need to find them. 

[allaire]

Ah but here is the problem with your argument.  The PC gamers wouldn't be having kittens if they had a PC game to play.  PC version of MW2 is a direct port from the xbawks version. here is an example:
IW's "PC CODE"
0071EB98: 'set systemlink 0; set splitscreen 0; set onlinegame 1; exec default_xboxlive.cfg',0
0070573C: 'menu_xboxlive_privatelobby',

They pulled dedi, lean, and the dev console out after assuring the PC gamers that MW2 would have the same experience as MW1.  Here is quotes from the transcript of a live chat session at http://forums.bestbuy.com/t5/Gaming/Call-of-Duty-Modern-Warfare-2-Live-Chat-Session-Transcript/td-p/67692.

TheNinthAxis: Is there lean in PC multiplayer.
Vince-IW: No.

zach426: What was your guy's logic behind removing the lean feature for PC, a feature that was a mainstay from all of your previous call of duty titles?
Mackey-IW: The game is not balanced for lean.

The hackers have found that the console, lean, dedi support, and three unreleased game types are in the code.  There is only a couple of reasons for this among them is that they weren't ready in time.  The more believable reason is that they will activate some of this code as DLC since they are planing to monetize CoD.  The record sales on this were for the console version of the game, the PC version had mediocre sales at best.  From what I have seen there was a significant amount of pre-order cancellations.  The only confirmed number I could find was from Amazon.com where they lost $200,000 from the cancellations, http://www.gamereflect.com/?p=24.  Most other businesses won't say numbers but will admit that they have had a lot of cancellations.

I don't condone piracy but this is a prime example of what happens when you assume that PC users will agree to being controlled like console players.  Infinity Ward screwed up big time and they are paying for it.  They thought that most FPS players were willing pay for what should have been included in the first place.  This is the direct result.  Will this hurt PC gamers in the future; yes but not as bad as some believe.  Look at what DICE is doing with Battlefield: Bad Company 2, http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2009/10/26/dedicated-to-our-pc-players.aspx##.  The worst part about this whole ordeal is the silence that the PC community is experiencing from IW staff.  I guess they believe that if they ignore it long enough it will go away.  I seriously doubt that it will go away any time soon and it will rear it's ugly head every time they try to make a new game.

[OOZ662]

Wait...WHAT?! How the twittle is that justification? The dev's go where the money is. PC, there isn't any at this point. Examine units sold on PC vs Console. now before I get flamed - think about the economics. A decent rig to run anything you are spending $1500 every 3 years. A console with a dedicated piece of hardware to run nothing but bouncing Konami kids playing dance dance revolution is $200.

I'm sorry, but you can't compete with that. Especially if you can sell 5 or 10 times the units for every PC out there that is interested. Its simply comes down to volume. Do I think its a sad state of affairs? Yes absolutely - I believe the PC offers a better experience in terms of fidelity then a console can ever offer. But the cost per unit you can't bring down to a compeditive level if a 10 year old wants a game. He won't spend 1500 on a system to run 1 thing. he might spend 300 + 60 for the game to get it running.

Wait, so you're saying that the people who spend over $1k on a system in order to run a game in the "preferred" mode shouldn't be in an uprising over not being able to play the game, not being able to play the game decently, not being able to find a room without hackers, and most of all not able to find somewhere to have fun for more than 15 minutes, especially considering the complete and utter lack of communication from the previously very talkative developers? Add to that that whoever moderates their forum is letting people leave posts up for DAYS that talk of nothing but tutorials on how to hack and pirate the game.

That sounds rather backwards to me.

On the topic of "not any PC at this point," I think if you look at the sheer volume of people in their PC forum and the number of people STILL playing through STEAM through all the cheats and hacks, you're quite wrong. The FPS community thrives on the keyboard and mouse. Though quite a few of them seem to be saying "to hell with it" after this game was released and ignored...and they sure as hell aren't switching to a dirty console.

[Wolfala]

Wait, so you're saying that the people who spend over $1k on a system in order to run a game in the "preferred" mode shouldn't be in an uprising over not being able to play the game, not being able to play the game decently, not being able to find a room without hackers, and most of all not able to find somewhere to have fun for more than 15 minutes, especially considering the complete and utter lack of communication from the previously very talkative developers? Add to that that whoever moderates their forum is letting people leave posts up for DAYS that talk of nothing but tutorials on how to hack and pirate the game.

That sounds rather backwards to me.

On the topic of "not any PC at this point," I think if you look at the sheer volume of people in their PC forum and the number of people STILL playing through STEAM through all the cheats and hacks, you're quite wrong. The FPS community thrives on the keyboard and mouse. Though quite a few of them seem to be saying "to hell with it" after this game was released and ignored...and they sure as hell aren't switching to a dirty console.

I'm not saying it's wrong and rather short sighted of IW to restrict features on the PC. It's rather ducked up in truth, but the bean counters have it right with their focus on the console market. Just follow the money. A publisher won't justify seed capital for followon versions with only 100,000 units sold. PC is lucky to hit that number. Hell just look how FSX sold and that was from
MS mothership.

Bottomline is this OZ, agree or not - on
the PC, we have no leverage in the market - or maybe severely diminished leverage. Were a niche product and market with cheaper alternatives to compete against with lower development overheads. 

[OOZ662]

Well, I think we're arguing different points. I think it's fine in principle for people to upheave against these companies that many feel have outright deceived them. I think you're saying it simply won't work...which I have no comment on, really. I dunno.

[Ack-Ack]

Shazbot!
I couldn't agree more ack-ack.

And for the folks who missed the greatest 2 fps games there ever were, here a few movies, no aimbots just pure skill.

Tribes 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qY8s7X-f30
Tribes 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOLmvS9lYJw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BjW1kN9P9k

*sigh* watching those videos really make me miss Tribes.  The best times I've had was playing with my brother and friend and we'd take our heavies and ski to the other base and take over the bunker.  We'd place ammo stations inside, place turrets all around and just sit in there and laugh.


ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

I'm not saying it's wrong and rather short sighted of IW to restrict features on the PC. It's rather ducked up in truth, but the bean counters have it right with their focus on the console market. Just follow the money. A publisher won't justify seed capital for followon versions with only 100,000 units sold. PC is lucky to hit that number. Hell just look how FSX sold and that was from
MS mothership.

The bean counters in this case is Activision and they've already said quite clearly that they are going to milk every existing IP in their library to the fullest.  In fact, one of the major criteria for a game to be developed and sold by Activision is whether or not they can fully exploit the franchise.  If they feel they can't squeeze the franchise for all its worth, they will either not green light it or dump the IP, Ghostbusters and Brutal Legends are two examples of this.  Both IPs were considered by Activision to be potential successful first releases but beyond the first release no potential as a franchise to exploit.

That's one of the main reasons why MW2 doesn't have dedicated servers for multiplayer.  Activision cannot get any money if little Johnny hosts his own dedicated server for his clan.  They can get money if they force little Johnny and his clan to rent a server from them.  

Bottomline is this OZ, agree or not - on
the PC, we have no leverage in the market - or maybe severely diminished leverage. Were a niche product and market with cheaper alternatives to compete against with lower development overheads.  

It really depends on the title, if MW2 had dedicated servers then you'd see the sales of the PC version be on par, if not surpass that of the console versions.  

PC games are not a 'niche' product at all, there are 'niche' games but those are genres and not really relevant to whether or not the PC is on the way out as a profitable medium for games.  It's clearly not the case.  It's really no different than the claims each time a new console is released that supposedly makes PC gaming obsolete, which has been shown time and time again that it's not the case.  The fact is, and this you'll never see a studio disagree, PC as a gaming platform is superior to that of consoles and always will be.  The only thing that helps the consoles is the ease of use which makes it more appealing to those that wouldn't normally play games on the PC.


ack-ack