Author Topic: pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt  (Read 1925 times)

Offline AKSWulfe

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2001, 07:58:00 AM »
Fact of the matter is, there's always something broken with the 109s or 190s.

In every game.

Don't believe me? You don't have to go very far, check out the Il-2 forums. Check out AGW.

In every game, it's just amazing no developer can get it right. I mean, what the hell, don't these guys know how uber the German aircraft really were?

Face it, the penacle of German aircraft with a mixture of speed, climb rate and _okay_ turn rate was 1939-1942. After that they became mediocre aircraft. Good to excellent in some categories while completely crap in others.

The fact that so many issues, that have been brought up before, regarding German aircraft and many have been fixed or many of your requests regarding adding more German aircraft have been answered shows that HiTech and Pyro read these threads and take them into account.

Some fixes come easier than others, and in the world of creating flight models changing one parameter can lead to several other changes that weren't intended. It ain't just change a value and it's good to go, there's a whole lot more to it.

Maybe if you realise that not only do they have to find out exactly what the problem is or how to fix it without breaking something else, all the while making new things for the game and fixing other things that may be more important- just maybe you will realise how very unimportant .4k/min at 25K for a single plane really is.
-SW

Offline hitech

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2001, 09:01:00 AM »
Quote
I just find sad that after many 190 threads posted with hard data backup, finally someone at HTC finally choose to post in it but NOT to talk about the 190 itself. And I find sad too, that you won't have posted in this thread if it wasn't to talk about me. The Fw190 FM would've still been ignored.  

Ram you are still continuing  down the same road. You have made it impossible to post in this thread about the subject of the thread.

Let me put it more bluntly ram, you insult everyone at HTC with almost every post you make. You insult the CM staff, the CO's of the oposing force. You insult anyone who ever disagrees with you in any fashion. You might not know you do it, but you do, Even in your last post you have insulted us at least 4 times, then even dare to drop a vailed threat. Well ram i've had enof of this crap from you, only this time im not going to fight it behind the sceens.

HiTech

Offline Ripsnort

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2001, 09:07:00 AM »
Ruh roh....

Offline Toad

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2001, 10:12:00 AM »
Amen, amen!

Amen, amen, amen!

See him in the office, working on the program.
Hear the players singing, amen, amen!

See him now with Pyro, talkin' bout the data.
Marvel at his knowledge! Amen, amen!

See him at the Con now,
Preachin''bout the future.
Miracles and wonders! Amen, amen!

See him on the BB,
Bowed in deepest sorrow.
Talking to old Ram now! Amen, amen!

See him in the arena, shooting yer rear end off.
Flying now and fighting! Amen, amen!

See him early in the morning, getting vox to work now.
He never takes a break now! Amen, amen!

Now he is our Leader, and his name is HiTech.
Glory, hallelujah! Amen, amen!

Sing it over, sing it over.
Glory, hallelujah! Amen, amen!


<apologies to those of you who feel this may be a bit blasphemous... all in good fun from my end>
  :D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Raubvogel

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2001, 10:34:00 AM »
Would this be a bad time to ask for the Me410? <g,d,r>  :D

Offline hazed-

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2001, 11:15:00 AM »
I dont want to place myself in the firing line but I would like to defend RAM a bit here.

please consider this,

LW issues i can think of off the top of my head:
the 190 engine bug (months of frustrating deaths),the 109 oil bug (annoying cut of the engine whilst every other plane seemed to fly forever with same damage), the 109 torque and E retention/zoom issue, now the 190a5 SL speed and hi alt climb performance,the 190 lack of full loadout options,the 190f8s lack of armour(it seems).
(please add any positive LW bugs you can think of...)

ALL of these issues/bugs/omissions meant that players flew their planes in the MA with the knowledge it was wrong which led to months of frustration.(P38 pilots can attest to this im sure with their need for dive flaps).Each time you died and these issues were involved (or NOT) you would damn the game for it whether it was fair or not.

other bugs/issues:

The p47 lack of weight issue, F4u4 lack of E loss in turns, the Nik E retention, the (argued) loadout mistakes(as in too much was enabled) on some allied aircraft,the seemingly indestructable La7 engine etc
(please add any negative bugs you can think of...)

ALL of these bugs/issues were in FAVOUR of the players that flew these aircraft.There was NO frustration in flying a plane with historically incorrect bugs, hell it even helped them.

NOW IM NOT SUGGESTING/INSINUATING/WHATEVER that these bugs were in some way intentional or that theres a conspiricy but I sure as hell understand RAMs frustration with these sorts of errors.Maybe he does come accross as too 'in your face' most of the time(      :p) but he has shown a lot of data to prove what he rants(      :)) for.

Hitech it dissapointed me to hear you accost Ram like this, we all know what hes like when he bursts out emotional responses but to be honest sometimes this game of yours gets VERY EMOTIONAL to play       :D. I dont think ive ever played a game where such a small issue can cause so much anger and frustration.You being an old hand,if not THE old hand at online flight sims should understand his frustration, ignore the emotional side, and if he has correct info use it.You can disgard any irrelevent crap cant you?
Seems a bit off, you as the company representative, to pile into him with everyone else even if he is being annoying.

so he bursts out insults here and there, WELL WHO HASNT?? to suggest that anyone who shows a little emotion in their posts will ruin the chances of their gripe/complaint/requests being dealt with seems like a veiled threat.Something you accuse RAM of.

This is none of my business I know but I am a customer and thats my take on the situation.
yes RAM goes about things the wrong way, yes sometimes it appears hes having a dig at HTC,but hes SPANISH for gods sake!       :D MUCH is lost or even Added in translation which simply isnt intended.

hope i got accross what it is im trying to say here, but ive no doubt this will be taken as some sort of luftwhine or holy blasphemous remark      ;).


p.s. Tac your poem was weird   ;)

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]

Offline hitech

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2001, 11:30:00 AM »
Hazed- If this was an On Ocasion only outburst I would tend to agree with you, only it has become then Norm not the Ocasion with ram. Just because some one wants to get emotial does not make it correct.And btw for every bug you post about the luftwafa, I can post stuff about the other countries planes also, bugs will always be with us, we just fix them as we can.

HiTech

Offline hazed-

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2001, 11:37:00 AM »
vv hitech I understand, and im aware of how these bugs must be doubly frustrating for you guys.

I hope you see where im coming from in terms of my understanding of 'Rams outbursts'( sorry RAM im not having a go at you honestly   :)).I put most of it down to firey latin temprement   :p.


P.S. Swulfe, whilst you probably are correct in saying the LW stuff wasnt quite what the majority of LW fans THINK they were, I for one do NOT want the 'uber LW' planes so i can forage for fodder in the virtual skies but I do want them to be accurate.I call for more accuracy in ANY plane i fly not just LW but for better or worse 109s and 190s are my favourite planes so i concentrate on them.Ive been called luftwhiner by you and others and it gets old fast. I get annoyed , not because im called luftwhiner, but because every issue brought up is then ignored or flooded with leather based lame assed jokes  :p until one of us shouts it out emotionally.Ram is one such person with a particularly hard skin who will shout it out.I say good job he does because no one else wants to receive the abuse he gets for it.why is the P38 dive flap request or the  la7 loadout (called for bombs to be added) not attacked in the same manner?
because idiots like to lump all LW flyers together and say everything is a whine. what a pleasent atmosphere that causes eh? just love it. NOT .

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]

Offline R4M

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2001, 11:47:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech:
you insult everyone at HTC with almost every post you make.

Nope. At least it always has been far from my intention to do it. If you have extracted that opinion, you are not right   :).

You insult the CM staff

Where?. nope. That is completely untrue, Hitech. And in fact, it was far from it.
I've saluted them for the work they do, and I've really been sorry for them when I saw BW contaminated by gamey players.

the CO's of the oposing force.

Thats true,but for well know reasons I dont hope you will understand.

 And I stand on what I said about the last scenario gamey tactics, word by word.

You insult anyone who ever disagrees with you in any fashion. You might not know you do it, but you do

Once upon a time I know you were right. Now I don't agree.

Even in your last post you have insulted us at least 4 times, then even dare to drop a vailed threat.

What? I insulted htc in my last post? how, please?. I'm REALLY surprised about this affirmation.

 I remarked several facts. I talked about Pyro not posting on several threads on the 190 possible problems, while he was posting in others wich were up and working at the same time. That is a fact.

Then I said that if you think I believe HTC holds an anti-LW bias, then you are wrong. and that if it was the case I'd say it openly ,and I won't have voted with my credit card for almost 2 years in a row. I've been paying for AH even while my hours/month logged have been under the floor. Why?. Because my opinion was that HTC deserved the money for a great game.

WHERE is the insult there?. I sincerely ask it as I fail to see where.

Ask funked about my private messages with him about BW. I mentioned him that I was not going to fly in a regular way any more, but that I still was willing to pay,if not for AH, but for HTC's work. That was said no more than 8 days ago.

If I'm talking with someone privately, and telling him not going to play that much AH, but that still I choose to still pay you for being a great bunch of guys who do a great work, you think I will then go and insult you in the open forums ¿?


And which threat? My dearly god, I've NEVER threatened HTC with ANYTHING in that post. I said, as I have stated, that I've been paying HTC for AH for nearly 2 years, and that I'm not someone who gives the money by free to the first one in the road. I just give it to the people I think they deserve it. And that I dont think that people with biases are people who deserve my money.

Conclussion : I payed you for 2 years----->I think you are worth my money -------> I dont think you have any kind of real LW bias because if I did, I won't be paying.

...threats?...where?

How is that a threat?¿. I fail to understand it.


Anyway, see. I'm not that sure this post will make it into the BBS as I'm not sure if I'm already banned or not. I know that this answer will prolly get me banned for live in AH forums. If I am, I'll go out with my head and chin up, because I've always kept my opinion as sincere as it can be. to be kicked for just saying my opinion is something I won't ever regret.

I know this post may mean an immediate ban. I won't say I dont mind it, noone likes to be banned from anywhere and I tend to like this place (that is why I post here). But if is the price to pay if one choses to be sincere and talk instead of being a hypocrite and shut up, then I'll pay it.

...I wont be the first banned in this forums. I'm sure I wont be the last either. But while others did earn their bans, and were banned for calling "useless squeak" to anyone they killed online, or "sonofa***" to anyone who killed them... or for calling AH online a "piece of crap" with you present, or for being a cheater...

I do think I'll be the only one banned while he still says that AH rocks in almost everything but gameplay, and that HTC is a very good group of guys whose work is amazing.Yesterday I was talking with a good friend of mine and suggested him to give AH a try because it was worth it. Curious, isn't it?   :)

I use to think that AH had some issues with some plane FMs; and my biggest concern has been the gameplay used in it (lots of gamey tactics and a MA I frankly dislike). But I also always said that AH is the best MMOL sim out there, bar none

I always thought that HTC was the best software developer for MMOL simulations, and that while that sometimes they overreacted to some members (not me, I'm talking about Supongo, for instance), I was sure that HTC was as fair as they could get.

But you say I insult HTC and AH in each post I make... oh well  :(


GRUNHERZ:
Yes, the 190 engine problem was fixed. Happened that it was shared by other planes, as the P38L...it was not a 190 EXCLUSIVE matter as it was shared by more planes.

HAZED:
Dont worry, I know you're not getting a go against me, mate  :).

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

Offline AKSWulfe

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2001, 11:53:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by hazed-:
LW issues i can think of off the top of my head:
the 190 engine bug (months of frustrating deaths),the 109 oil bug (annoying cut of the engine whilst every other plane seemed to fly forever with same damage), the 109 torque and E retention/zoom issue, now the 190a5 SL speed and hi alt climb performance,the 190 lack of full loadout options,the 190f8s lack of armour(it seems).
(please add any positive LW bugs you can think of...)

190A5, super E retention when it first came out. It could zoom and zoom and zoom.

 
Quote
Originally posted by hazed-:
other bugs/issues:

The p47 lack of weight issue, F4u4 lack of E loss in turns, the Nik E retention, the (argued) loadout mistakes(as in too much was enabled) on some allied aircraft,the seemingly indestructable La7 engine etc
(please add any negative bugs you can think of...)

F6F-5 had bogus stall.
P38L glass tail.(it also shared the 1 ping dead engine bug)
P51D's wings would rip off for no reason.
From Readme:
"Fixed a bug with the P-47D-30 that was causing it to not get its full WEP performance."
"Fixed a bug in the C.202 that was giving it decreased thrust"
"Found a problem with the induced drag of the P-38 and adjusted it."

Perhaps you just remember the ones selectively, afterall when you are viewing the other side of the pond without much care for what's really going on over there while concerned with your own problems you tend to view the other side as having no problems and all bonuses while your side has all problems with no bonuses.

Tends to be a problem with LostWaffles, everyone's out to get their precious lil' planes.....
-SW

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]

Offline ra

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2001, 12:02:00 PM »
More allied bugs:

Tiffie was a dog when first released.
Mossie had low fuel load when first released.

LW bug you never heard about:

190A8 could carry a 1K bomb with no reduction in climb rate when 1st released.

ra

Offline R4M

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2001, 12:06:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ra:
LW bug you never heard about:

190A8 could carry a 1K bomb with no reduction in climb rate when 1st released.

ra


You know that the 190A5 when it was released, had 125rpg in the MGFF outter cannons? (and I thikn there was also a weight bug wich had something to do with that issue)

Guess who reported it to Pyro. Yep. Me. The trusty uber-whining uber-my-lw-is-undermodelled-RAM.

I don't just tell what is undermodelled in the planes I like. I indeed also tell it when something is OVERmodelled.

Just happens that you people just see what you want to see.

Offline AKSWulfe

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2001, 12:12:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by R4M:
Just happens that you people just see what you want to see.

While your busy trying to believe that, might I suggest you take a good long look into one of these:
 
-SW

Offline R4M

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2001, 12:14:00 PM »
I look into one lots of times per day.

xcept for the ugly of my face ( :D), and the eventual problems everyone has sometimes I usually like what I see.

Offline hazed-

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pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2001, 12:18:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SWulfe:


F6F-5 had bogus stall.
P38L glass tail.(it also shared the 1 ping dead engine bug)
P51D's wings would rip off for no reason.
From Readme:
"Fixed a bug with the P-47D-30 that was causing it to not get its full WEP performance."
"Fixed a bug in the C.202 that was giving it decreased thrust"
"Found a problem with the induced drag of the P-38 and adjusted it."

Perhaps you just remember the ones selectively, afterall when you are viewing the other side of the pond without much care for what's really going on over there while concerned with your own problems you tend to view the other side as having no problems and all bonuses while your side has all problems with no bonuses.




YES BUT APART FROM THAT...WHAT did the ROMANS ever do for us???????  :D

ok I stand corrected swulf, there were other bugs that dealt frustration out to those that flew them but you surely understand my point that it did seem everything that went wrong with the 190s/109s was (mostly) a negative rather than a positive bug.

as to the 190a5 zoom it was corrected within 1 tour i believe and thats the only positive bug i remember.

Quote
Tends to be a problem with LostWaffles, everyone's out to get their precious lil' planes.....
-SW


hehehe grrrrrrrr  :)