pyro 190 a5 climbs too slow at alt

[hitech]

See I'm not entering a personal discussion about any matter, and less in a public forum ,Hitech.

I just find sad that after many 190 threads posted with hard data backup.

The SAD is the insult, it implies you do not like how we post on plane topics.

 

, finally someone at HTC finally choose to post in it but NOT to talk about the 190 itself.
 

One more insult now even when we do post, we post totally incorrectly an suck at handling topics on our bbs.

 

And I find sad too, that you won't have posted in this thread if it wasn't to talk about me. The Fw190 FM would've still been ignored.
 

One more insult, you assume we wouldn’t have responded to this tread. This orignal topic is such an easy one for us to respond to. It’s simply testable by everyone, is no facts in discussion, the plane either matches or not.

 

BTW not all 190 threads in this forum were posted by me. In fact, just ONE 190 thread (the 190A5 SL speed) was started by me, and I think it was posted in a civil way.
 

We monitored that tread, no need for us to respond to it, other people were handling both sides of the issue.
 

And nothing came from you guys.
 

Why should it? Have we done a release since that topic?

 

Not a yes, not a no. Just nothing. You bypassed those threads without any answer when you did answer other complains and questions regarding other planes. And that is my complain.
 

Read my other post ram, you have become nothing but so much noise, continualy insulting us and  it’s why we don’t respond to you. Some one else could use the same data, and we might respond, but if we don't except every one of your ideas, in your view we are the ones who are in error.
 

See, HT you can take this answer as you want to take it.
 

I have no choice but to do that ram, everyone sees stuff threw his own eyes,
 

But I'll tell you that if you think I believe HTC holds an anti-german bias, and that I'd pay a monthly fee to fly an intentionally porked game made for a biased develoment team, then you're way off target.
 

Another insult, you imply our game is porked, you just make the statement that you don’t think it’s Intentionaly porked.
 

If until today, most months I've voted in a favorable way HTC and AH with my CC...and
 

Here is the vailed threat, althow not much of one. It sais that you will now consider once again quiting.
 

if I have broughy several new players to this game as I have done...and if I have done more things to favor HTC that I can't name in public (but I'm sure you and Pyro still remember)...if you think I've done all that for a biased dev. team then you're taking me for a fool. And I'm not one.
 

Ram have you ever considered how many people you have chased away?

Have you consider us letting you come back deserves a little more respect for us from you?

I would expect your next response to this as somthing like, well you guys all hate me ill just quit. And once again you will wan't to show yourself as the injured party.

Ram your best responce to this topic and many others is a simple apoligy, with no strings attached, i.e. no posting trying to justify yourself.

And then let the issue die.

Hitech

[Pyro]

I'm getting similar results although not as big.  It'll take some further testing but there is one issue that will cause discrepencies at high altitudes and that is that alt-x only sets best climb speed to the SL setting.  As you get higher, the best climb rate IAS is usually dropping.  I don't know that that's the case here as I haven't look into that far yet.

Ram, you help your cause about as much as Louis Farrakhan helps race relations.

[Wotan]

I know y'all got plenty to do but if somethings wrong its wrong no matter who points it out.

However who takes an a5 to 25k......  

geeeeeeesh gimme a 410  

[funkedup]

Hey I saw A-5's at 30k+.
I keep having nightmares about them too!!!
 

[Regurge]

Yup, in Bigweek zig's 190s were up around 28k. Sometimes we even got past 30k doing these kinda sub-orbital arcs. And if we looked up and squinted real hard, we could occasionally make out some allied planes  .

[Toad]

Hazed:

1. I am not "Tac". I'm Toad.  

2. It is not a poem, it is a song.

3. The original lyrics can be found here:

Amen!

4. Jester Hairston wrote the song, "Amen" for the film, "Lilies Of The Field" starring Sidney Poitier.

...now isn't that a bit more than you wanted to know?  

[R4M]

HT I honestly think you are looking for what is not there...please bear with me for some minutes in this last reply.

The SAD is the insult, it implies you do not like how we post on plane topics.


Humm yes, you are right, I don't like to see some posts answered and others not...but does thad imply an insult?. At all moments I've agreed that any of you were perfectly free to asnwer where you wanted to. I simply didn't like to see some posts ignored, thats all.

Is that an Insult?...honestly don't think so.


One more insult now even when we do post, we post totally incorrectly an suck at handling topics on our bbs.

You extrapolate a too harsh affirmation, putting it in my name. No, I don't think you suck at handling topics on our BBS. In fact I think you are pretty free-minded in that department, generally speaking. And I like that.

But yes, I think that not posting in threads with data showing that AH's FM may not be accurate (data wich, at least, deserves some credit) isn't good. Is what I think. But to think that doesn't automatically imply that I think you suck at handling a board, HT. And in fact is far from what I think.

 

One more insult, you assume we wouldn’t have responded to this tread. This orignal topic is such an easy one for us to respond to. It’s simply testable by everyone, is no facts in discussion, the plane either matches or not

Yes, I assumed you won't have answered this thread. And I think that not without a good reason. please bear with me and understand why do I say this:

 The "190A5 SL speed" thread was also an easy one to answer to, HT. It had a very straightforward speed chart, origin being Focke-Wulf FleugZeugbau, wich showed the Fw190A5 between 10 and 15mph faster at Sea level than what it is in Aces high. yet it got no answer.

 The "190G8" thread was also an easy one to speak about. In it we discussed the existance of a very wide series of 190 F and G jagdbombers using wing drop tanks and heavy bombs. We posted photos and discussed their origins,etc.  Yet it got no answer.

Same goes for lots and lots of threads about 190 weapon goodies with scans and the such, wich have been posted for months in this forum. The wing rockets in the Jabo 190s, for instance. There have been several threads about the issue. They got no answer.

So, when I saw another 190 thread I simply thought "yet another wich will go bypassed".

Is that to insult you? or to take a look back at the past events and extrapolate that you won't take a part in this thread too?.

Is the second.

We monitored that tread, no need for us to respond to it, other people were handling both sides of the issue.

Aye, but you have also monitored other threads in the past AND answered -briefly, but answered- to them...(going from loong past issues as the n1k2 climbrate at hi alts,or the P38 damage model and FM, P47 Paddle prop, P47 DTs...lots and lots of examples here).

I hope you understand that seeing no answer whatsoever to the Fw190 threads was frustrating at its best.

HT I Know you in HTC were aware of that thread. I know you look into the forums and READ them, and is something to be happy about.

 But a simple post saying either "yes, the speed in AH is correct,so its staying the way it is, because that chart..." or "yes, the speed in AH may be a bit under the chart, we'll look at it..." is all what it would've got me to not get at all concerned with this issue.

And is not that I saw no answer to one thread...the problem is I saw no reply, but not on ONE thread, but in LOTS of threads about the 190...

Anyway I never intended that to be taken as an insult, either.

Why should it? Have we done a release since that topic?

Yep, last patch was released after the 190A5 SL discussion.  

I repeat I never demanded an IMMEDIATE fix. I just wanted to see HTC's opinion on a chart wich shows a 190A5 almost as as fast as a Fw190A8 on the deck. This in turn got me angry on the P47 DT addition while the F8 remained the same (topic wich, BTW, I admit I absolutely went ballistic on that one.)


Read my other post ram, you have become nothing but so much noise, continualy insulting us and it’s why we don’t respond to you. Some one else could use the same data, and we might respond, but if we don't except every one of your ideas, in your view we are the ones who are in error

No, HT...is not that way...for instance, I posted a chart wich shows a faster Fw190A5 than the one represented in AH. That doesn't mean that you are the one "in error". You have your sources and you follow your sources. According your sources, you surely have got right the 190A5 FM.

I just put up another source wich,(assuming it wasn't already in your hands) if it was taken in account, it might mean a change of the FM. Or it might not.

The problem is that I got absolutely no clue on which was the cases...and the lack of answer was quite frustrating.

I have no choice but to do that ram, everyone sees stuff threw his own eyes,

I honestly think you read too much and too deep into my posts, HT. And you find what is not there. This is said with complete sincerity.

Another insult, you imply our game is porked, you just make the statement that you don’t think it’s Intentionaly porked.

Again, not. I show sources wich don't coincide with AH's FM data. That doens't mean AH's FM data is WRONG: it is right by your standards and the sources and data you have at hand.

So, there is nothing like "is not INTENTIONALLY porked"...just happens it was done without having knowledge of a determinate source, wich, taken into account, would mean a different FM.

So, I neither think the 190A5 is intentionally porked, or UNINTENTIONALLY porked. I just think is modelled using sources wich do not include the chart mentioned. And that if we take the chart into account, the FM should see a change.

Is so hard to understand?...does imply any insult?.

Answer is no.

Here is the vailed threat, althow not much of one. It sais that you will now consider once again quiting.

No. I just remark that I don't take you as a group of liers, but a group who deserve to win my money giving me a nice entertainment in exchange. I said that just to illustrate that I have been supporting your team during 2 years because I think you are worth it.

And saying that is a threat that I'm going to quit?...please HT, is FAR from it. It's been a LONG time since I got over the "I quit" period. Tho I understand you might have taken it this way, it is NOT this way.

I never said I would quit...and in sincerity I have deleted my account because your answer (I thought I was going to be banned after my answer, and I would decline to pay for AH if I'm banned from the forums). Seeing your answer and understanding that you've completely mistook my posts, I'll reopen my account as soon as I can (even what that means I've lost money).

Ram have you ever considered how many people you have chased away?

Have you consider us letting you come back deserves a little more respect for us from you?

I would expect your next response to this as somthing like, well you guys all hate me ill just quit. And once again you will wan't to show yourself as the injured party.

Ram your best responce to this topic and many others is a simple apoligy, with no strings attached, i.e. no posting trying to justify yourself.

And then let the issue die.



to answer in proper order:

1-I honestly think I've helped more people to stay than to go. Even ammo, who is openly against me in this forums- will have to admit that I am completely open to help training newbies (remember terracota, ammo?...those were the times, huh?   ).

In the time I've been in AH I had very bad moments of online behavior and I can't erase that. But I don't think there will be anyone who says I'm an online jerk anymore.

2-I just think that to talk this this way and in the open is yet another proof that you deserve lots of respect. and I DO hold that respect for you, as you might notice now that I've answered above what I have. You're not talking about anything new for me,HT. I've always hold an enormous respect and admiration for you and your team.

3-you dont know me, HT, and this is the clear proof  

4-I disagree, I had to explain what you had gotten wrong. Remember there is a big language barrier for me each time I try to talk or write in public. Sometimes comments wich are completely inocuous might be taken as a direct offense (see avobe,t oknow about what I mean). And I think this is exactly one case of it.

I do apology if I've offended you, and anyone at HTC because it was far from what I want to do. VERY far.

So please accept my most sincere excuses, Hitech, Pyro, Superfly, Natedog, Ronni and (last but not the least...because she's the one I really offended once when there was a problem with the CC-and I hope she has accepted my sincere apology, presented a long, long time ago)...Yankee.

5- I hope you just answer this post. Will answer only at your request.

<S>

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[Pongo]

The biggest thing that bothers me about the RAM dynamic is the hypocrosy of it.
How can any rational person complain about the responsiveness of HTC to client imput to this game...
Has he ever played another game of any kind?
I think that is why he is such poison to topics that he gets involved in. He is insulting HTC about the very charecteristic of thier company that really sets them apart and that they should be the most proud of.

Many of us who have been playing for a while and have watched the game develop know that disagreement not only is acceptable in the progress of the game. It is helpfull. Show both sides. Save pyro the research or help him focus his research. This has never been a problem here and we all know it. But when every disagreement turns into accusations of bias or bigotry what result would we expect from the developers.


RAMS biggest frustration must be that he sees that the players do have input but he does not. HT cannont make it any more plain why not.
They have him squelched and they probably squelch every thread he pops up in.
I sure would. He has never been able to show a different side, sooner or later every thread he participates in becomes about either alligations of bias or about RAM himself.
Life is too short.

[MANDOBLE]

I needed to consult my english/spanish dictionary looking for "insult". The translation was, as expected, "insulto". Then I needed to consult "insulto" in a traditional spanish dictionary... ...mmm... nothing has changed about this word in centuries. Conclusion: english-spanish dic should be definitively porked.

[HoHun]

Hi Hitech,

first, let me assure you that I don't know anything about the past, the background, or even just about the first half of this thread, as there are way too many edits up there.

I'd just like to point out that none of the four "insults" you list actually is an insult. Actually, the quotes are not even close, and they are not even ambigous.

They might tell you something you don't like to hear, but that's hardly enough to consider a post insulting.

To me as an interested outsider, RAM's post conveyed quite a bit of enthusiasm about Aces High, and just a little bit of disappointment.

I don't think RAM's comments as quoted by you require any kind of apology, justification, or re-phrasing, and I think that whatever was posted, it's no good idea for a forum administrator, under no circumstances, to demand a general apology not just for verifiable quotes, but for an entire topic "and many others".

I really don't know why I'm posting this, as it'll very likely put me in the middle of a flame war I don't have the slightest interest in, and I hardly know RAM anyway, but please take some time to consider my words and get a bit more distance to the topic before taking any kind of action. Thank you!

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[hitech]

Ram, it is clear to me you will not get what im trying to say.
 
You are still trying to stand by your post with absolutly zero understanding of how it insults, belittles, critizes,shows lack of respect, tells us we are doing a crapy job,all with the full belief that you are in no way at fault in this. And that you are right therefore it must be everyone elses fault that they take offence.

So once again instead of helping your case with one simple post,as I sugested, you have dug a hole I doubt you will be able to get out of.

To everyone else, I hope you understand the diffence we see in posts of pointing out problems, or desire for changes, and post that tell us our best efforts are not good enof for you. One we see as a desire to help us, the other we see as a desire to just flame us,or squeak.


HiTech

[R4M]

Roger Hitech.

No need to further elongate this thing. I've thoroughly explained each and all of your points in your previous post, you refuse to look way beyond what you're convinced you've read at first.

I,and I'd say I wont be the only one, simply fail to understand how A SINGLE thing of what you quoted me, can be taken as an insult or a threat. Still I've tried to explain it step by step thinking it might be a problem of my way of express myself.

I dont know if it is the case or not, I just know that while you look, you don't want to see. I've presented an apology for something I really think I haven't done, and that I might have done accidentally, and I just found ,suprised as hell, that you choose to throw some more dirt over me instead of trying to rationalize. It was supposed that the hot-blooded spaniard was me   ?...

I'll be honest, I'm quite dissapointed. But I'll do what I see you really want me to do in the end. See, it was as easy as to say "Log off RAM". and I'll do it. No need for bans or for sideways. You could've done it even privately and I've gone silently.

But that last post was something I'd never expected from you. I hope you don't take this as an insult BTW (little twisted humor here I hope you catch, BTW  )

Farewell everybody, meet you somewhere else.

<S>

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[pasao]

Hi all:
In first place a salute to all AH comunity. I am wondering how a plane question can degenerate in a ultra long post full of insults and crap, seems near to incredible.
RAM is a "TOCA PELOTAS" (something like BOLLOCKS TOUCHER) in a definitive way, as we said here:
To wrong words, closed hears
Really RAM is a conflictive person, of course not the only one, there are much like him outdoor.
My sugerence, don't reply or conversate with don't know talk or never change his point of view, remember that 20% of the people causes the 80% of the problems, see to any office or workplace, you always can see the typical person questioning all, the typical person tired allday, the typical working a lot and never reconogised..... the classic stereotypes. As is usual there are people in AH of all ways, RAM is the TOCAPELOTAS of the moment, as we have another nice people and normal people, give to each the place they must occupe, don't loose time with the one can hear you.

Really RAM, this is not the way to contruct a game or a comunity.

Salute again to all, pasao

[fats]

--- pasao: ---
RAM is a "TOCA PELOTAS" (something like BOLLOCKS TOUCHER)
--- end ---

So you are saying he is gay, or does he just touch his own bollocks?


// fats

[R4M]

lol...allow me a last pleasure.

Passao, y tu eres un poquito (muy) gilipollas.

Espero q si algun dia coincidimos en alguna quedada de afionados a la simulacion, donde sea, tengas las narices de llamarme tocahuevos,cara a cara en vez de detras de una pantalla de ordenador, y en un contexto donde dar semejante puñalada trapera no sea hacer leña de un arbol caido cuando segun tu fecha de registro has tenido un puto año entero para meterte conmigo y no lo has hecho hasta q ves que el arbol esta REALMENTE caido.

Desde luego lo que soy yo, no tendre ningun problema en decirte lo pedazo mamon que eres cara a cara. Aparte de bastante cobarde.

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]