Which is a better plane?

[BnZs]

I'm guessing its because the A-5 can stand in for the first butcherbirds in early scenarious without being ridiculous and also is still pretty good in Midissh timeframes.

I've been wondering what Thorsim has been wondering...for instance why the 190-A5 and not the 190-A6...and why not the 190-A2 for an "early war" model? Production numbers maybe?

[Krusty]

This debate is still ongoing?

Let me put an end to it, then  

The 109 is the better "fighter"

The 190 is the better "killer"

They can each do both, but there's a subtle differentiation in the categories.



As for the Dora: It climbs like a 109, turns like a 190a5. It's acceleration is through the roof, and can loop, rolling scissors, yo-yo, at least 10 times better than an A-5 when furballing. The D9 is a much better furballer, since it won't reach that "oh crap I'm dead" moment as quickly as the A5 will.

I'd also be careful suggesting newbies start with the F-4. It's a nimble plane for sure, but as far as killers go, most newbies won't like it, may get frustrated and give up. The slow speed, inability to disengage, run away, or chase anybody down, will get on their nerves. The faster G-2 is a better option, but I'd just suggest flying the G-14 with 20mm hub gun to learn. Superb power, climb, accel, and same hub gun. It gives you the tools to be competitive in the LW environment but still learn the quirks and foibles of the plane type. Once you get a few kills and feel comfortable you'll be better suited to move on to the G2 or F4 models.

Just my thoughts on the matter. It's like the spit1. Best turning spit by far, but nobody wants to start in it because you can't kill in it without some modicum of skill. You get that skill on the higher marks (the more competitive ones) then work towards it.

[gyrene81]

I'd also be careful suggesting newbies start with the F-4. It's a nimble plane for sure, but as far as killers go, most newbies won't like it, may get frustrated and give up. The slow speed, inability to disengage, run away, or chase anybody down, will get on their nerves. The faster G-2 is a better option, but I'd just suggest flying the G-14 with 20mm hub gun to learn. Superb power, climb, accel, and same hub gun. It gives you the tools to be competitive in the LW environment but still learn the quirks and foibles of the plane type. Once you get a few kills and feel comfortable you'll be better suited to move on to the G2 or F4 models.

I dunno Krusty...before coming to AH I generally couldn't stand the 109s...but after forcing myself to learn I've found my survivability in the 109-F4 is better than the G-6 or G14 when there are a lot of planes fighting from 7k to the deck...and dumb me likes to jump into a fight without thinking...I've learned to use the bb-guns to get a bead on the target for the cannon and only shoot from shorter ranges unlike the 190s where there is plenty of 20mm to waste a few, and the bigger guns make it more tempting to start shooting from longer ranges. The G-6 and G-14 have excellent power (for 109s) but maneuverability isn't as good...and it's way too easy to get into control trouble at high speeds with them...as slow as the F-4 model is, it's easier to back off before you get to the point where your controls don't respond turning you into a lawn dart. In the situation where you're "hunting" in a 109, yeah, I'd go with the 109-G6 or the G14...but in a furball, where a lot of newbs often find themselves, if they want to fly a 109, I'd say the F4 model.

P.S. the 109-F4, G2, G6 and G14 have 20mm hub cannon...MG 151/20...E4 model has the MG FF/M.

[Krusty]

gyrene: "with 20mm hub gun" as opposed to the 30mm, so that switching to earlier models won't involve learning new ballistics.

Also, the G14 is quite nimble, when flown without gondolas. It will outmanuver most late war planes, and can give spits a run for their money (in combat, not flat turns, that is).

[Nemisis]

Definatly will give an unwary spit pilot fits.

When hunting, I leave the gondolas in the hanger and take the 20mm hub cannnon with 200 rpg. Leaves you lighter and faster, and with decent firepower

When in a furball I take the gondolas and the nose cannon, as I'm one target among many, so no one is going to specificly target me unless 109's just piss them off. That lets me get away with taking firepower (gets kills faster, and when in a furball where anyone can get on your 6, its a priority) over manuverability.

When buff hunting, I take the 30mm hub cannon, and the gondolas. When the 30mm runs dry, I RTB. Can get upto 4 sets of bombers (my personal record, you probably COULD get more, but its beyond my accuracy) in a single flight without rearm.

[Saurdaukar]

as I'm one target among many, so no one is going to specificly target me unless 109's just piss them off...

I actually find that many people actively avoid 109's and Yak's, regardless.

Both are small aircraft and difficult to hit.  Consider how much attention, by comparison, a P-38 gets in a furball.

[Scotty55OEFVet]

Right on Soulyss.  I have noticed that the 109 will give you a better edge in straight-up fight, while the 190 is a beast when it comes to BnZin'.  190s are more for killing Bombers in my opinion, but then again, I just cannot fly a 190 in a 1v1.  I love the 109 for most everything, especially the F and G14.  You need to work your Trim more on 109s than 190s.  You get that down and 109 is a Death Dealing Basterd!  Remember guys, this is my opinion so feel free to break it down further.  I am still in the process of doing my research on the 109's and theyre strengths and weakness's.  <S>

[grizz441]

I actually find that many people actively avoid 109's and Yak's, regardless.

Both are small aircraft and difficult to hit.  Consider how much attention, by comparison, a P-38 gets in a furball.

I figured it was because they assumed it was a good pilot in the plane, on top of the reason you just stated.

[BnZs]

I figured it was because they assumed it was a good pilot in the plane, on top of the reason you just stated.

They  can be fluff'ng hard to hit with even an indifferent pilot in it. On top of that, the Ruskie planes seems to absorb a ton of ammo!

[jdbecks]

I try to avoid Yaks...I hate them, I really hate them....it is a aeroplane spawned from the fiery depths of hell.

[thorsim]

here is what sort of puzzles me ...

all this fighting is more fun and the correct way to play and the only thing that makes you better arguments ...

does that only apply to the better planes for that stuff?

see i find that difficulty is a large part of the fun, and i am wondering why more of you guys who are soo good at furballing already are not graduating to airframes that are more difficult to "fight" in compared to the usual suspects.

i mean i just don't see many of those making all the comments about "putting yourself at risk" in a furball putting themselves in FMs that do not put themselves at a significant advantage in those types of fights.  i mean your arguments would carry a lot more weight if you guys were not in planes that tend to dominate the fights you insist   are the only way to make you a better fighter pilot.

this is in response to the 190 is for this, and 109 is for that, and the avoid the this that or whatever discussions ...

i mean if you can dominate the furball in a furball dominant airframe because you have learned AH/ACM are we supposed to be impressed? 

i would like to see guys discussing dominating furballs in the 190s because you have learned AH/ACM that would be far more impressive than the avoid this or that discussion here that imo tends to undermine the whole "Furballers are better" argument.

when i have been caught in a furball say when defending a base i see a lot of wiffs and the only thing i can think of is because the maneuvers i am forced to use to solve my angles in my a8 vs. better turn fighters just leave a lot the furballers looking for their proverbial jock straps. 

point being if they had to learn those maneuvers they would not only be able to predict them from me but they would also find that those maneuvers translate to the turnfighters just as well and by using them they could also solve their angles more efficiently than just they typical "pull harder, climb better" in the better turning better climbing aircraft those furballers gravitate towards.     

i don't mean this as a dig so much as i am wondering why more of you do not push yourselves more by using more difficult airframes if as so many of you say furballing is for and about being "better" players.

point being, is not the "inferior plane" actually "better" to use at some point if your goal is becoming a "better" player?   

[grizz441]

i would like to see guys discussing dominating furballs in the 190s because you have learned AH/ACM that would be far more impressive than the avoid this or that discussion here that imo tends to undermine the whole "Furballers are better" argument.  

 
I do dogfight in 190s but I don't expect somebody like you to do it and I would never recommend doing it for the average pilot asking a generic question about the aircraft's strengths and weaknesses.

[gyrene81]

I do dogfight in 190s but I don't expect somebody like you to do it and I would never recommend doing it for the average pilot asking a generic question about the aircraft's strengths and weaknesses.

I think he was talking about furballing where people get dissed for picking...not simple dogfighting, as in 1v1 or 1v2...

[TonyJoey]

mmmmmmmm, tasty. 

   Back on topic, I think that a newer player would be better off flying the 109f as some others have said, as it offers great turning ability along with decent speed. On the other hand, the guns are a bit measly.

[Plazus]

I try to avoid Yaks...I hate them, I really hate them....it is a aeroplane spawned from the fiery depths of hell.

  Come on, Yaks arent that... bad. Hehehe. I personally prefer the 190 over the 109. Two main reasons- greater survivability, and more firepower. As far as what plane is the best? It all depends on your fighting style.