the m3a1 "grease gun" for pilots after they bail out

[Ack-Ack]

I will post my film tonight

I would be interested in seeing the film from the fight were I was trying to shoot pieces off of your plane.  Would like see how much I shot off before the coup de grâce.  The films would be like seeing a baby harp seal being clubbed but from the seal's perspective.


ack-ack

[Krusty]

I'm still wondering if he'll ever discover the surprise (nobody else tell him!!) if he actually does some reading up on Bf109E tropical models.

[gyrene81]

gyrene i actually went and looked up the BAR online and it had an effective range to 1,500 yards and a max range of shot fired to 4,500. but the thompson and grease gun were rifled? i didnt know this. and btw i nailed it with the effective range of the M3A1... 100 yards is 300feet man. and i said this without actually returning to sources and looking it back up. so i know more than u think man

LOL...I don't remember you saying 300 feet range on the M3...but I'll give you that one.

the Grease Gun was an SMG... this means it is unrifled and therefore only effective within 100-500 feet give or take... let alone 500 YARDS out

This is what really prompted my replies:

but it only had an effective range out to 1,500 yards. For a ranged weapon thats only good in my mind.

Aside from the idea that you thought sub machine guns used unrifled barrels...1500 yards effective range for any weapon less than .50 caliber is damn good.  

You can look up the specs on the BAR all you want...strange that a semi automatic rifle has a longer maximum effective range than a bolt action of the same caliber and era...and the bolt action rifle is by far more accurate.

Yes you could kill with the BAR out to 1500 if it was in pristine condition and stabilized then fired single shot...but the operative word is "effective range" and that is combat range of 400 yards, except out in the open where the battle could force longer ranges...even though it was capable of full automatic fire, the 20 round magazine and design flaws kept it from being an outstanding infantry squad support weapon...it was considered inadequate for much other than a semi automatic rifle like the M1 Garand...

one more thing gyrene, not to continue an argument here but just a point. fighter vs fighter puts a starting velocity on all ordinance shot from the plane. a BAR or a .30cal mg on the ground COULD damage an aircraft in flight but theres a reason quad .50cals, .20mms, and .37 and .40mms were used. now i think ill drop this conversation because i was wrong once already

I'll bite...what do you think those reasons were? This Eric wish is a dead horse anyway.

[kingcobradude]

I'm still wondering if he'll ever discover the surprise (nobody else tell him!!) if he actually does some reading up on Bf109E tropical models.

and what in gods name are the tropical models?

[gyrene81]

and what in gods name are the tropical models?

LOL...look em up...even wikipedia has them listed.

[kingcobradude]

LOL...look em up...even wikipedia has them listed.

but it dont say which ones were thr tropical ones

[Krusty]

It's part of the reading process. I wasn't thinking specifically of wikipedia, but if it has the info all the better.

[Ack-Ack]

but it dont say which ones were thr tropical ones

Here is a picture of it.  You just have to figure out which of the two it is.




ack-ack

[FYB]

It's the one on the, right isn't it? No, no, wait... The left? Darn!

[Motherland]

Here is a picture of it.  You just have to figure out which of the two it is.

(Image removed from quote.)


ack-ack

While that may be a trop it's kind of unfair since it doesn't seem to have the filter attached in that photograph.




For lack of a real photograph of an E/Trop with filter attached...

[Ack-Ack]

While that may be a trop it's kind of unfair since it doesn't seem to have the filter attached in that photograph.

(Image removed from quote.)


For lack of a real photograph of an E/Trop with filter attached...
(Image removed from quote.)

If you look, it appears that it does because you can clearly see the black shape of it, unless that was the outline left over after they removed it.

[Motherland]

Those are just the grates of the standard E-style supercharger intake.

[Vudu15]

give me a shovel and a lewis gun outa the F2B...dig small hole at end of runway and fire away  or my Colt Targetsman .22 and hide out at the rearm pad wait for Dutchguy 

[Eric122]

well, we have all learned alot from this forum. I ooviously dont want to try to get it anymore but the conversation is interesting

[321BAR]

Yes you could kill with the BAR out to 1500 if it was in pristine condition and stabilized then fired single shot...but the operative word is "effective range" and that is combat range of 400 yards, except out in the open where the battle could force longer ranges...even though it was capable of full automatic fire, the 20 round magazine and design flaws kept it from being an outstanding infantry squad support weapon...it was considered inadequate for much other than a semi automatic rifle like the M1 Garand...



  I'll bite...what do you think those reasons were? This Eric wish is a dead horse anyway.

alright alright i bit back... i did say maximum range for the BAR was 4500. with effective to 1500. this means that it doesnt have to be pristine and didnt have to be stabilized except by the person weilding it. Yes it was hard to WEILD to fire on full auto. http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg36-e.htm found this site. it said it was actually just too light to fire full auto at a shouldered position. This means it was able to fire auto when supported. BUT it could not fill automatic rifle or LMG roles successfully due to the design flaws as you said.
For the second half. im pretty sure those reasons were higher velocity, better punch, etc.