If I Like RAF Aircraft

[funked]

Jekyll, it didn't have MW 50.  In fact there is no mention of MW 50 at all in the manual.

The only boost systems mentioned are:

1.  A "supplementary petrol injection" system which is referred to in the past tense.

2.  A boost override system which is said to have replaced the petrol injection on new planes  coming off the assembly line.  This allowed 1.56/1.65 ata (low blower/high blower) vs. 1.42/1.42 ata for normal "emergency and takeoff power".  If you remember, MW 50 was supposed to allow increased boost by preventing detonation - this boost override device is doing the same thing.  Somehow they figured out how to make it possible without using an antidetonant.  This gives a significant performance increase below the two critical altitudes of the BMW 801

3.  A GM-1 system fitted to some aircraft.  This gives a significant performance increase above 8km.

I'm almost done scanning the performance data and I will post it later to day.

[jmccaul]

I know no one wants an uber plane so here is a compromise - not even the LW would argue this shouldn't be included.

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As mentioned earlier, the Mk XIV was so successful that a sophisticated version, known as the "Super Spitfire", was built. The "tear drop" canopy was used again and with a Griffon engine, a modified fuselage and wing shape, the Spitfire Mk XVIII was introduced. This aircraft was capable of over 470 mph, and production started in March 1945.

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[jmccaul]

But whats this i hear you all cry - what give the RAF something competitive, ok then how about the spiteful with the griffon 101 it only does 494 mph. Or mabye we should just stick with putting a griffon 83-88 in a spit with one of those contra-rotating props.  

[Nashwan]

The Spit IX we have now is a 1942 version. That has been stated by Pyro or Hitech. The differences between a 1942 version and a 1944 one are minor. It is basically the same plane performance wise. 150 octane fuel would make it climb quicker and give it a higher top speed low down.
I would not like to see the Spit XIV introduced. I have said that before, the plane I would really like is the Tempest. Instead we got a 1941 plane, the Typhoon.
I would like to see improvements made to the current Spit IX, such as 150 octane, rear fuselage tank, bubble canopy and 4 cannon option. LW planes have been given most if not all their armament option, Spits haven't.
I would also like to see the HF and LF versions of the IX introduced.
My feeling is, if the best RAF fighter of 1944 has to be kept out for play balance, we should at least get an upgraded 1942 plane.
Just don't kid yourself, or anyone else, that it is a genuine 1944 aircraft, like the ones other countries have.

[LLv34 Nattulv]

And a good way to do that is introducing the Mk XVI (Mk 16). Its a Spitfire IX airframe fitted with a Merlin 266 engine, thats a Merline 66 (same as in Spitfire LF IX) but manufactured under licence in the US by Packard.
Performance differances between LF IX and XVI was little.
The new mark number was assigned due to the to engines , even if the same performancewise, needed differnt servicing tools and spare parts.

So in the end it would be a 1944 Spitfire that will not make AH what for instance European Air War is online.... a one plane sim.

Spitfire XIV was a great aircraft that had VERY few vices and if it is introduced into the normal planeset it would become the most common ride, that im sure of. And this would take alot of fun out of the game very fast.

And trow in a Tempest V while we're at it. Would be a good addition to the plaset.      
Dont like it myself but was a very good aircraft (and a "1944-plane"      )

Guys stop calling eachother names and start act like adults instead, not like kids in a sandbox....

Nattulv, a FW190/Bf109F-G/Spitfire lover and driver in the same body .YES its possible!!!      
     
 

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Nattulv
Lentolaivue 34

[This message has been edited by LLv34 Nattulv (edited 05-27-2000).]

[Minotaur]

This is not a flame to you Jim, I am just using your quoted text for reference.

 

Originally posted by jmccaul:
But whats this i hear you all cry - what give the RAF something competitive, ok then how about the spiteful with the griffon 101 it only does 494 mph. Or mabye we should just stick with putting a griffon 83-88 in a spit with one of those contra-rotating props.  

IMO the 1942 Spit IX we have in the MA does exceedingly well.  Check the stats, it is a very successful addition.  I believe HTC made the right choice.

If you get into a late war HA I can see the need for a later Spit.  The Spit XIV in the MA might just displace the F4U-1C as KOTH, then "Holly Jeepers, Heavens to Mergatroid!...  

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[juzz]

Take a close look at the figures...

Spitfire Mk XIV(Griffon 61). Top speed: 363mph at S/L. 388mph at 12,000ft. Climb: 20,000ft in 5.1 minutes. Initial climbrate ~5000fpm.

Spitfire Mk VIII(Merlin 66). 150 Octane/+25lbs boost. Top speed 360mph at S/L. 400mph at 12,000ft. Climb: Initial climbrate ~5500fpm.

Btw: Four cannon was not really an option for the Mk VIII/IX/XVI/XIV. Only for Mk VC, and Mk 21/22. Rumour is that the F Mk IX didn't have the "E" wing(2x20mm, 2x.5in) option either.

Of course there is the other Griffon engined Spitfire, the Mk XII. Squadron service in February 1943.  

[jmccaul]

Mino i think i should have put smilie in that post.  

I would though appreciate a quick RAF plane such as the tempest. It's nice to sometimes be able to stick your nose down and run away.

But how about his for an imaginary uber plane :

Spit 5 -
First off we take

A spit Vb with a max speed of 357 mph and

1)Fit multi-ejector exhausts -> adds 7 mph
2)Remove carburetta ice gaurd -> 8 mph
3)fitting rear view mirror with improved fairings -> 3 mph
4)use whip areial instead of mast ariel -> 0.5 mph
5)cut cartridge cases and link ejector chutes flush with wing -> 1 mph
6)polishing and sealing leading edges ->  6 mph  
7)wax polish aircraft -> 3 mph

new max speed is 385.5 mph

the next stage would be to add cliped (don't know how many mph that would add)


and then finally :-

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Some of these engines (merlin 45's) were modified for low-altitude power, since most of the air combat was taking place around 6,000 feet. In these, the supercharger impellers were shortened, and the speed of the constant-speed unit increased. This gave a maximum power height of around 6 000 feet, and increased speed by around 22 mph at this height. If coaxed to higher altitudes, however, the engine suffered badly.
==========================================
   

I think that would be fairley competitive.

[juzz]

"new max speed is 385.5 mph"

Uhm, that's pretty damn close to what the AH Spitfire Mk V does actually.

Clipped wings add about 5-8mph(depends on alt), iirc. And as for that whopping 22mph extra from clipped supercharger impellors...

Spitfire LF Mk VB(Merlin 50M). Top speed: 333mph at 2,000ft. 350mph at 6,000ft. Climb: 18,000ft in 4.8 minutes. Initial climbrate ~4700fpm.

[Nashwan]

4x20mm was an option on any Spit fitted with the C or E wing, i.e. about half the Vs, nearly all the IXs and all the XIVs and XVIs.
It was esy to convert to 4x20mm, much like the field kits the Luftwaffe used. Just take the old guns out and put the 20mm in it's place. It was something they could do in squadron service, not a factory mod.

[Sundog]

I know what you're saying, but has anyone heard of many IXs actually fitted with the 4 20mm cannons? The XVI's I have seen pics of with the bubble canopy and  4 20mm's. I haven't seen a pic of an operational Spit IX with 4 20mms though. Just curious.

I would also rather see a Hurricane IIC modeled here as the next British Fighter. I know it isnt late war, but the Spit IX currently doesn't have a problem holding its own in the MA. If you want to point your nose down and run, grab a P-51    

 

[jmccaul]

Could the 22 mph be a result of comparing the critical alt(in terms of top speed) of the LF (6000 ft ?) with the speed of the HF at that alt rather than it's critical alt (15K- 20k ?).

The book i got those mods from (osprey spit 5 aces) states the '44 spit LF's would out run 109 G (no number) and match the speed of the FW under 6000.

 Quite intresting though that those mods could produce almost 20 mph extra speed - i can see how it must be hard for pyro deciding what numbers he's aiming at. (was aircraft specially preped for test etc.)

 

[pzvg]

Ya know, I do hope ya'll get the Spit whatever (hell I'll probably fly it too, since I fly all the planes)
But seriously folks, if you demand so much of an edge is needed to remain with the game,
what ya gonna do when your spit flies under the nose of my Zeke and you find out that the only numbers that count are the number of rounds that hit? You gonna quit because a zeke felled the airplane god? (And don't give me that "you'll never shoot down a whatever spit" crap, I will, so will others)
And now for something completely different:
Pyro, when we gonna get a French aeroplane in here? Jeez, imagine overlooking an entire nation's airforce, disgraceful  
(funning, but I would fly one)

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[juzz]

22mph is the increase in speed at 6,000ft - where the modified engine produces maximum power(normal Merlin 45 peaks at 18-20k). Ie: The LF Mk V does 350mph at 6,000ft. Not far above 6,000ft the "clipped, cropped and clapped" LF Mk V is slower than a normal F Mk V.

[-duma-]

Why does everyone want the blinking Tempest all the time? Ya bunch of wusses  

Typhoon forever!

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Duma
XO The Red Dragons
 http://www.reddragons.de

[This message has been edited by -duma- (edited 05-29-2000).]