Author Topic: If I Like RAF Aircraft  (Read 2616 times)

rfa

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If I Like RAF Aircraft
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2000, 02:48:00 AM »
Sigh,

In every game, its the same thing.  AW, WB, AH, and even WWIIonline.

The Spit was a great plane.  It did everything well, but its main rivals always did SOMETHING better - be it carry more firepower, climb better, or fly faster.

...and as for spit bashers, oh man, don't get me started.  Why do people spit bash??? Well, I think its a way to avoid defeat by saying the enemy had an "unfair" adventage.  Most spitbashers don't even know why they hate the spitfire or its pilots.  

PS - as for adding a new spit, Mk14 or Mk16 are great choices (happy, no roman numerals!)

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S/L rf-a,
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Northolt Wing

   


[This message has been edited by rfa (edited 06-10-2000).]

B-Town

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« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2000, 05:00:00 AM »
You are all very wrong.
What you want is a mark XXII (22) This thing had a counter-rotating prop, had a top speed higher than a P51D could climb better than most other aircraft in the world. The only problem with it was that if you dived too fast then the aircraft boardered on the sound barrier and could rip of the wings as well as killing you... Can you say Human bullet? LOL

Still a nice AC though

Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2000, 06:47:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by B-Town:
You are all very wrong.
What you want is a mark XXII (22) This thing had a counter-rotating prop, had a top speed higher than a P51D could climb better than most other aircraft in the world. The only problem with it was that if you dived too fast then the aircraft boardered on the sound barrier and could rip of the wings as well as killing you... Can you say Human bullet? LOL

Still a nice AC though
The Spit XIV will outrun a P51D, and outclimb almost every other aircraft. No need to go for the Mk 22 for that.
The Spit wouldn't rip it's wings off in a dive. In fact it had probably the highest safe dive speed of any WW2 fighter. The only real problem in high speed dives with the Spit is aileron reversal, which isn't nearly as bad as losing your wings  

The contra-props on the Spit 22 would be nice to have though   Anyone know the performance figures for a Spit with the Griffon 85 engine?

Offline juzz

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« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2000, 07:53:00 AM »
Spitfires of all marques could lose wings in high speed dives. Think about it. They were exceptionally thin wings - they weren't strong enough to resist twisting when the ailerons were deflected at high speeds.You think they couldn't be ripped off under load?

For example:

Tangmere 31 May 1942. "During an interception flight in very bad weather in the Winchester area the pilot of this Spitfire VB was leader of two aircraft. His aircraft was badly damaged in an engagement but he was able to note that the other Spitfire went into a high speed dive. Ground witnesses saw wreckage coming through clouds consisting of fuselage only, both wings being off. The fuselage caught fire after impact and was almost destroyed. The pilot who returned to base thought that the other pilot lost control.

"The port wing had broken off at the root bolts and the leading edge rivet seam was sheared from one foot outside the cannon to the outer m/g, indicating high torsion due to aileron flutter. Practically all the structure aft of the spars was broken away. The aileron lever rivets were sheared on the starboard wing. On the port wing, part of the lever comprising the two arms was broken off from its attachment flange and pulled through by the cables to rib 12, where it jammed. Both rear cables are thought to have broken first, ie. those holding the ailerons down.

"The starboard tailplane is thought to have broken upwards, shearing the bolts. The tail end had torn away at the rear joint rivets but was intact. It was considered that structural failure was due to excessive normal loading, produced by an uncontrolled pullout at high speed."

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 06-11-2000).]

Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #49 on: June 11, 2000, 10:20:00 AM »
Ok sorry, I should have said the Spit is less likely to rip it's wings off than most fighters. It was very rare in the Spit, yet people seem to consider it common. On the other hand, it was quite a common problem in Mustangs, and nobody ever comments on it.

"The Mustang had been dogged by instances of structural failure, particularly since the marriage to the Merlin. Flight restrictions on dives and other manoeuvres were imposed, but in the course of combat, these sometimes had to be ignored. The puzzling thing about Mustang airframe failure was that it could not be pinpointed to any one area and was sometimes encountered in brand-new aircraft that had not undergone any known flight strain. Engines tore loose from fuselages, wings were shed, and empennages crumpled and while most of these incidents happened during a sharp manoevre it was a fact that other Mustangs would engage in the same manoevre time and again without any sign of failure. Some components were strengthened - notably the fin and undercarriage door locks (which had a nasty habit of breaking open) - but a few cases of airframe failure were regularly reported to the end of hostilities and beyond." - Roger Freeman, "Mustang at War".

"Most serious of all [problems] was structural failure. Occasionally the wings came off Mustangs in a high-speed dive. There were two main causes for this. At very high speeds, the large doors of the ammunition bays began to bulge outwards. This distorted the wing to the stage where stresses imposed were too great, and it parted company with the fuselage. The second cause was a tendency for the undercarriage to extend in flight, causing abnormal loads on the wing." - Mike Spick, "Great Aircraft of WWII"

"'I witnessed this [Mustang wing] loss on two occasions. One wing was lost directly over the airfield at Madna, Italy in the fall of 1944. The airplane and pilot went straight into the ground not far from the control tower. One other loss occurred there during an afternoon 'rat race.' Coincidentally we were discussing this wing loss with Johnny Typer, the civilian representative from NAA at the time. He was adamant that no-one could pull the wings off a P-51. No sooner had he made that remark than I heard behind me the dull thumps of two wings separating. He asked 'What's that?' and I answered that it had happened again. He asked how I knew, to which I replied, 'Once you've heard that sound, you'll never forget it." We watched as the litter and tumbling wings fell slowly to the ground, long after the fuselage and pilot had crashed - an unforgettable sight and feeling." - Lt. William G. Coloney, 52nd FG, quoted in the Spick book mentioned above.


funked

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« Reply #50 on: June 11, 2000, 05:50:00 PM »
Yep, the structure of the Mustang was designed for a much lighter weight than that of the P-51D.  The consequence was the above mentioned structural failures and some stability problems as well.

eye

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« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2000, 12:26:00 AM »
Give me a mk 8 a mk 7 or a mk 12. Any of those planes can whip any us german or japanese plane. Spits are constantly under represented in flight sims. Btw seafires or mk 14 or 16 can whip any of them too. You think i like spits Cliped wings and 4 cannon for the 5 would be nice too. Why we have 3 109's and 2 spits? Oh one more thing the brits made the best fighter of ww2. Why? They made the spit!

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2000, 12:59:00 AM »
The spit can allready hand it to any german plane. What is you point...that it always should?

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Offline mx22

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« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2000, 09:20:00 AM »
Pongo, if Spit9 can woop you when you fly your G10, I'll say you need more time in training arena. Period.
Hristo had already proved what smart flying in G10 can do. Show me anyone who can do the same thing in Spitfire?

mx22

rfa

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« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2000, 05:04:00 PM »
Pongo, no matter what game you mention, its always the same thing.

In a novice vs novice fight, the Spit will win most of the time.

In a veteran vs veteran fight, the 109 has the advantage.  Thats, of course, when you talk about historical matchups: MkI vs Emil, MkV vs Franz, MkIX vs Gustav.

Smart flying is your best friend when flying 109s.  If you fly it smart, you are going to be the king of the air - if you don't, you are hispano cannon fodder.


 

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Offline Pongo

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« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2000, 06:22:00 PM »
MX...
Hristo picks his fights pretty carfuly. That brings success no matter the plane. What are you guys talking about.. one on one ladder duel? I am not I am talking about the MA.
Any plane can woop me MX. Any plane can Woop you too. Back to the training arena with you I guess.
I would agree that a good E fighter has a turning spit at a real disadvantage. But the spit is a good e fighter too.
I dont fly the German stuff cause I think its supperior. I like to fly it. The spit is way easier to get kills in in the MA. I fly it enough to firmly believe that.

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Offline mx22

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« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2000, 08:37:00 AM »
Spit may be easier to kill in, but it's one of the hardest planes to survive in. In anothe thread awhile ago I have already noted: Once I commited myself to attack, there is no return. Spit simply doesn't have enough speed to escape. During my usual arena flying, it's not rare for me to end up being engaged by 3-4 bogeys at once. You in 109 can simply extend when forced in situation like this, while I'm in Spit bound to turn and loose even more E and unless I'm really lucky and can equal odds back sooner or later I will go down. That's why I want SpitXIV.

mx22

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2000, 09:45:00 AM »
I say again.

The spit can allready hand it to any german plane. What is you point...that it always should?

I bring this up again only in response to your last post. I see lots of guys landing spitfires mx. So you want a plane that will let you get out of any too aggressive position you get yourself into?

Show you anyone that can do the same thing in  a spitfire.. The whole point is that you cant do the same things in a spitfire that you can do in a G10. But you are welcome to fly the g10 is you think it is invulnerable.
You will find that you cant do the same things in a G10 that you can do in a spitfire either.

Dont worry you will get your Mk14. And I will be flying it along with everyone else. I mean the spit ix is a training plane but as you pointed out it can be beat. A bubble top XIV will probably push the scales all the way over. So you will see alot of them.
We will all have fun shooting down spits in spits....

Offline SKurj

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« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2000, 10:12:00 AM »
I heard pyro mention one evening that the B29 also has a place in AH, would this not create the same imbalance issues as the spit mkXIV..
ESPECIALLY with a base like A1 in existence..

Without aircraft like the 262, F86, or Mig 15 how would we combat the 29?


SKurj


Offline mx22

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« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2000, 10:21:00 AM »
Pongo,

Ever wondered why during WW2 every major country tried to produce fast speed fighters, not the biplanes that can turn circles around them?
Speed is life. So I want to fly Spitfire that has speed.
Also, note I'm not asking for some uber, low production plane in here. Spitfire XIV entered service in early 1944, about the same time or even before BF109G10 and before FW190D. So there should have been around the same number of planes produced as BF109G10. By the end of the war, even later Mk Spitfires were starting to roll of the production lines and I would understand if you say AH should not have them. But no, you want LW to fly latest BF109s and FW190s, while RAF should be stuck with Spitfire9. Even if it's a 1944 equiped Spitfire9 (which is still unclear), it's still an old 1942 Spitfire and there is not much to add to it.

P.S. Couple of years ago, when I used to fly in WB, I was in JG53 and used to fly BF109s. While I'm not as good in it now as before, trust me, I know what the plane is capable of when flown right.

mx22

[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 06-13-2000).]