If I Like RAF Aircraft

[Pongo]

Dont know what you were replying too in my note. I know we are getting the 14. I just pointed out the effect of that. I will be flying it too. I am not going to go arround and work like a dog for every kill.
In a plane that is faster then a 51 climbs better then a 109g10, has the gun options of a f4u1c and turns a bit less then a spit ix and the fastest dive speed of any ww2 plane. oh ya it has the vision of a 51d as well. Ya ill kick its but with my supperior roll rate....I dont wonder you want it. I will be right there with ya.
Lets get it in the game and get it over with. Pyro can stop developing new planes right there and we can all perfect our homogeneous arena flying skills.
At last those spit pilots will stop being the underdogs...lol
Good thing we have so many pilots willing to fly such a crappy plane. Why there is something it is not best at!

[mx22]

Pongo,

Yak9U is coming in two weeks. You can as well switch on it right away as your 109 will be outclassed. Why to work on the kill, when Yak9U will give it all to you??? Or so you say.
People fly different planes because of the appeal of that plane to them. Of course, there are guys who just want to kill and don't care what they fly. They will switch to whatever the best plane in the arena at the moment, be it F4U-1C, P-51 or BF109G10. But there are plenty of other guys that keep on flying other planes. I am more then sure, that just because you will stop flying LW planes, others won't. I'm sure that Hristo with his careful selection of fights will keep on having great score, no matter if there is Sit14 in the arena or no.

mx22

[Nashwan]

I don't think we'll get the Spit XIV until perk aircraft come out. Then it will arive along with P51H, Ta 152 and P47M. In other words, it will be another outdated Spitfire.

I wish we did have a 1944 Spit 9. It would be a lot faster on the deck (about 25mph faster) and climb a lot better. Currently we have a standard 1942 Mk 9.

I'd like a faster RAF plane, but I don't think it should be a Spit XIV. If it's as good as some people are claiming it would unbalance the game. I think we should get the Tempest as a non perk plane, and when perks come out we should bypass the Spit 14 altogether and get a true end-of-war fighter for the RAF, like the Spiteful, Fury or Spit 21.

[mx22]

Hi Nash,

I have seen some people doubt that Spit9 is really a 1942 plane. That is the reason I said that it might be 1944 redesign of the plane.
Tempest will be a good ground attack plane, no doubts about this. But how can someone just leave out one of the most important and influncial planes just out of the picture? Spitfire plane series for RAF is like BF109 or FW190 series for Germany. Why in AH then RAF should be limited to flying inferior planes? We have BF109G10 and will get FW190D, I say bring in SpitXIV in arena to counter them. When we get to TA152 being considered for the arena, I'll start asking for a more powerful Spitfire then MkXIV.
Regarding balance in arena. SpitXIV has a monster torque and my guess it will be very hard to handle at low speeds because of it. It should not, and coul not turn as good as earlier Spits. It might be more manueverable then BF109G10, but it will be far from being able to make circles around every other plane in the arena.

mx22

[Karnak]

Mx22,
Actually the Spit XIV turns a faster, slighty wider circle than the IX due to its increase in power and improved propeller.  It can haul itself around and into angles of attack that would stall a IX.

Sisu

[mx22]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
Mx22,
Actually the Spit XIV turns a faster, slighty wider circle than the IX due to its increase in power and improved propeller.  It can haul itself around and into angles of attack that would stall a IX.

Sisu

cc Karnak. Already figured I did mistake there   Have to get home and check books, then will know how does it really stand up to Spit9. In any case, as you noted, it should turn about the same with Spit9.

mx22

[mx22]

OK fd_ski gave me a link where comparison between Spit XIV and Spit IX is made. I'm pasting it here:

Tactical comparison against the Spitfire IX

Range & Endurance- The Spitfire XIV, without a long-range tank, carries 110 gallons of fuel and 9 gallons of oil. When handled similarily, the Spitfire XIV uses fuel at about 1 1/4 times the rate of the Spitfire IX. Its endurance is therefore slightly less. Owing to its higher speed for corresponding engine settings, its range is about equal. For the same reasons, extra fuel carried in a long-range tank keeps its range about equal to that of the Spitfire IX, its endurance being slightly less.

Speeds- At all heights the Mk XIV is 30-35 mph faster in level flight. The best performance heights are similar, being just below 15,000 and between 25,000 and 32,000 ft.

Climb- The Spitfire XIV has a slightly better maximum climb than the Spitfire IX, having the best maximum rate of climb yet seen at this Unit. In the zoom climb the Spitfire XIV gains slightly all the way, especially if full throttle is used in the climb.

Dive- The Spitfire XIV will pull away from the Spitfire IX in a dive.

Turning Circle- The turning circles of both aircraft are identical. The Spitfire Mk XIV appears to turn slightly better to port than it does to starbord. The warning of an approaching high speed stall is less pronounced in the case of the Spitfire Mk XIV.

Rate of Roll- Rate of roll is very much the same.

Conclusions- All-round performance of the Mk XIV is better than the Mk IX at all heights. In level flight it is 25-35 mph faster and has a correspondingly greater rate of climb. Its manoeuvrability is as good as a Mik IX. It is easy to fly but should be handled with care when taxying and taking off.

You can find all the info above, plus much more at:

 http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spittest.html

mx22

[Pongo]

Mx you are twisting what I am saying. But that is fine. You say the Spit is too weak, I say it is just fine, You say Hristo can fly a 109, i say he could fly a Spit just as well, You say I need training.
You have no troubles in the spit Ix and you know it. You describe the 14 in your own words as an uber plane and then you say you need it for parity with aircraft that are inferior to it....

Nash dont imply the late spit Ixs were faster then the one we have. People will go to war with ya.

[jmccaul]

How about the mk 18 as perk plane to compete with the ta-152's and 51H's.

i got this off a website
========================================
As mentioned earlier, the Mk XIV was so successful that a sophisticated version, known as the "Super Spitfire", was built. The "tear drop" canopy was used again and with a 2-stage, 2-speed 2375 HP Griffon 67 engines, a modified fuselage and wing shape, the Spitfire Mk XVIII was introduced. This aircraft was capable of over 470 mph, and production started in March 1945. 300 were
produced.

==============================



[This message has been edited by jmccaul (edited 06-13-2000).]

[rfa]

Pongo,

The Spitfire is (and was) a great plane, no doubt about that.  It has been my experience, however, that no matter what game you are playing, a well flown 109 has equal or better chances of wining a fight with a well flown Spitfire in the "right" version for the era.
Your opinion about the Spitfire being a wonder weapon is simply wrong.

As for the "offbalancing" factor of the MkXIV that you refered to, it also might be wrong. In WB, we have 190s, Mustangs, Corsairs, Yaks, MkXIV Spitfires, as well as other famous late war planes.  In no way is the Mk14 an offbalancing factor.  The arenas are not full of Spitfires.
 
...and this is off topic, but I just wanted to mention that the MkIX and the MkXIV were very similar in the air - just becasue something is faster does not mean it has to be considerably unglier in terms of flight characteristics.  


--------------------------------------
S/L rf-a,
No. 303 (Polish) Sqn RAF
"Northolt Wing"

[This message has been edited by rfa (edited 06-13-2000).]

[This message has been edited by rfa (edited 06-13-2000).]

[Pongo]

Rfa.
I started in response to this statment
 by eye.
"Give me a mk 8 a mk 7 or a mk 12. Any of those planes can whip any us german or japanese plane"

to this I responded
"The spit can allready hand it to any german plane. What is you point...that it always should?"

That question never recieved an answer. Just a lot of spit pilot insults and retoric. The spit we have is fine. It should beat any plane in the plane set much of the time in the hands of an equal pilot. I gota say I find the opinion that Spit IX pilots are flying with some kind of handy cap silly.

[Nashwan]

Pongo, a standard Spit 9 will do approx 335mph at sea level. A 1944 Spit 9 with 150 octane fuel will do 360mph.
All versions of the Spit 9 apart from the early production versions using a Merlin 61 with +15lb boost will easily outclimb the Spit we have in AH.
I think what people are trying to say Pongo, is not that the Spit is incapable of scoring victories in, but that it is hard to survive in. From my own experiences, I kept getting chased and caught by small packs of enemy fighters. I don't see any way of surviving an encounter with 3-4 enemies when you are in a Spit, they chase you down to quickly for any hope of running away.
How many of the players in AH with the best K/D ratios fly Spits? And how many fly 109s?

[Nashwan]

Ok, I went and checked the kill stats. I wish I had a good enough connection to play instead  
Top 5 sorted by kill/death in tour 4 (last complete tour)

Pilot...Spit9...P51....G10... .F4U1C...190A8
ons......0-0....0-0....0-0....48-1.....0-0
ypsilon..1-0...177-2...0-0.....0-0....16-0
handy....0-0....3-0....0-0....71-6.....0-0
Vila.....3-1..150-18...0-0.....0-0.....0-0
Hristos..0-0....0-0...104-9....0-0...190-28
Average..4-1...17-1....12-1...17-1.....7-1

There may be pilots with good k/d in the Spit, but they aren't in the top 5 and their ratios dont get anywhere near the P51, the G10 and F4U-1c.

[rfa]

Pongo, every side deserves a plane from a given era - when talking about a 190D or 109K, or TA152, one has to mention the MkXIV.

As for the spitfire pilots flying with a handicap you mentioned, I agree with you, it does not exist - but, when it comes to speed, its main rivals can outrun it 90% of the time.  I am sorry, but the real test of how succesful a plane is lies with how many planes it can shoot down and live another day.  In scenarios, what I mostly fly in WB, spits are regularly "outscored" by 109s and 190s becasue of one sinple thing - speed.

The Spitfire can hold its own when facing 109s or 190s in the right version for the era, but it is by no means a wonder weapon, and its a very hard plane to survive in over a long period of time. The MkXIV should be modeled if more late war (1944-45) planes are modeled - it belongs there.  As for unbalancing the game - IT WON'T.    

------------------

[rfa]

Pongo, every side deserves a plane from a given era - when talking about a 190D or 109K, or TA152, one has to mention the MkXIV.

As for the spitfire pilots flying with a handicap you mentioned, I agree with you, it does not exist - but, when it comes to speed, its main rivals can outrun it 90% of the time.  I am sorry, but the real test of how succesful a plane is lies with how many planes it can shoot down and live another day.  In scenarios, what I mostly fly in WB, spits are regularly "outscored" by 109s and 190s becasue of one sinple thing - speed.

The Spitfire can hold its own when facing 109s or 190s in the right version for the era, but it is by no means a wonder weapon, and its a very hard plane to survive in over a long period of time. The MkXIV should be modeled if more late war (1944-45) planes are modeled - it belongs there.  As for unbalancing the game - IT WON'T.

-----------------------
S/L rf-a
No. 303 (Polish) Sqn
"Northolt Wing"