New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3

[Karnak]

1680x1050
No issue at all. I use zoom liberally and constantly, though. It is after all, a mechanism to make up for the lack of fidelity you get over a monitor

I don't have Track IR, so the zoom isn't useful to me unless it is right in front of me, or the small chance it is in the field of view on another HAT angle.

[Bronk]

Having a smaller monitor is no more handicapping than having a crappy stick or using a mouse, having a twisty vs. pedals, or TIR vs hat switch.

In fact come to think of it, since the widescreen update in what, 2.14, a 22" monitor such as mine has a wider FoV but no more 'zoom' in default position than a 1280x1024 monitor which I think goes from 17-19 in.

Really? Try taking on raptor in his mouse controlled 38 and get back to me.  If you can't see you cant fight. A guy with a 24" wide screen monitor running hi res pack will have an unfair advantage over a someone with a  19" running 256 when no icons are used.  You cannot argue this. Just think of what that will look like when fight starts looping over ground clutter.  Who do you think will most likely loose sight of the other first in that situation hmm?

[Motherland]

Really? Try taking on raptor in his mouse controlled 38 and get back to me.

That's my point

running 256

Colors/textures make no difference.

guy with a 24" wide screen monitor running hi res pack will have an unfair advantage over a someone with a  19"

24" from what I understand runs the same 'zoom' as a 19" monitor just at a wider FoV (meaning you just have more 'peripheral' vision nothing is actually bigger in the center of your screen). I think you have to go up to 26" or 32" to actually have more 'zoom' (or maybe the FoV is just wider still I don't know never used AH on a monitor that big).

It USED to not be like this, and it kind of sucked actually because on a widescreen monitor it would cut off the top and bottom of your view because the widest angle the game could render was 90 degrees or whatever, however this was changed in the update that gave us triple head2go support.

I don't have Track IR, so the zoom isn't useful to me unless it is right in front of me, or the small chance it is in the field of view on another HAT angle.

While I've not used a hat switch for a long time I know that I've used zoom constantly ever since I accidentally hit the z button instead of the x button.

[Bronk]

That's my point
Colors/textures make no difference.
Right looping over the ground color and texture wouldn't play into it
24" from what I understand runs the same 'zoom' as a 19" monitor just at a wider FoV (meaning you just have more 'peripheral' vision nothing is actually bigger in the center of your screen). I think you have to go up to 26" or 32" to actually have more 'zoom' (or maybe the FoV is just wider still I don't know never used AH on a monitor that big).
You use zoom in a knife fight?  

While I've not used a hat switch for a long time I know that I've used zoom constantly ever since I accidentally hit the z button instead of the x button.

[fudgums]

Flew with no icons tonight, friendly icons were turned off for a while as well. There was no problem identifying zeros and wildcats. It was quite easy too. 

[Motherland]

Right looping over the ground color and texture wouldn't play into it

The silhouettes are only ever a shade of dark grey, so absolutely not. If you could actually see detail, it would play into the person with lower texture resolution, anyway.

You use zoom in a knife fight?  rolleyes

When I say 'constantly', I mean it Zoom is mapped as the down position on the hat switch my left index finger rests on on my throttle. My middle finger on that hand rests on a roller that controls the degree of zoom. If you want some insight into what high priority I put into it...

[Motherland]

Flew with no icons tonight, friendly icons were turned off for a while as well. There was no problem identifying zeros and wildcats. It was quite easy too. 

YOUR EXPERIENCE MEANS NOTHING!!

[gyrene81]

Just saw this:

You're wrong.

It's called the brain. You don't NEED icons because you look at it and already have your OWN range readout inside your head. You instantly know "it's a football field away" or "it's a block away" or "it's waaaay the hell out there!!"

Your brain instantly can tell distance by whatever standards you grew up with. You HAVE these things all within the time it takes for an electron to fire in your nerve synapses....

Fast as thought it self (which is what it is) you have this information. It's just basic cognitive ability. You're looking at your car to see if you left the window open, you don't need a range readout to see how far it is, you instantly know "it's across the street" or whatever, and instantly see "damn, I left the window down!" while registering everything. If somebody broke your antenna off, you instantly say "wait, something's wrong!" Or if somebody keyed your doors, slashed your tires, or clipped your fender, all of this is processed at the speed of nerves firing inside your brain.

In AH you can't replicate this. Not in any game can you pretend to replicate this. The human brain... So good that technology hasn't been able to replace one yet!

Really Krusty? So you're telling me people are born with the ability to determine relative distances without ever being exposed to the views and there is no way possible for someone to learn how to do the same thing in the scaled down 3D environment of AH?

Wow, and here I thought scientific fact was correct...


Determining relative distance is a learned function sir, not part of our genetic makeup...we are not born knowing the difference between 1 inch and 1 yard...nor are we born with the ability to see the difference without being taught through repeated exposure...even with repeated exposure in an average adult, the ability to determine relative distance associated with numbers is limited to approximations, but not exact numbers especially within the 100 yard increments that AH icons display...and a person who has learned to see things in metric measurements won't see distances the same way a person who has learned SAE measurements. In the AH world if a person were to repeatedly subject himself to the viewing of distant objects with and without icons for whatever period of time it takes their brain to memorize the view that person would eventually learn to not only determine relative distance without the need for icons but also to determine what the object is out to around 5000 yards.

[Nr_RaVeN]

its painfully obvious who has and has not flown with no icons .Your arguments are not based in first hand experience.
 if you haven't its so its silly to argue the point. I come to this conclusion because if you have actually given it a chance you would not post the uniformed arguments your presenting.
In any case to each there own, at some point I'm sure in time your view will change.

 it took me 12 years of simming before I converted to enjoying the no icon style of game play....

 I made the same augments as you did for the use of icons about how they were so necessary... until i tried it and stuck with it.

 Now i prefer no icons its all a mater of time and the desire for new challenges. I can tell you this if your are bored with a sim jump into a no icon server and it will be a totally new game. eventually  YOU WILL ASSIMILATE  

Icons are about $ money that's right dollars plain and simple.
this applies to any sim. Icons make it easy and it gets pepole on the hook ,most pepole want to take the path of least resistance if sims were sold with out icon availability there would be far fewer sales bottom line.

don't get me wrong Icons are very important for flight sim.
 They are great training tools and with out them I would have probably given up before I learned anything. Yet back then graphics were not close to what they are today.
The icon option is essential we have to have them available for the new guys to learn.

 In any event there comes a time when an accomplished simmer needs to cut the icon cord, to challenge ones self, the rewards are well worth the learning curve time.
That's what an arena like this would be geared toward.

Again I'm not trying to convert all of AH just looking for a new option.

This whole realism argument is so silly its a freeking cartoon in the first place,
 No icons is about the players experience not reality.

Don't want to do No icons? No problem don't try it.
But if there is a no icon arena available  that some may want to try it in... don't dis them for that. freedom of choice is a good thing.

 

[Bronk]

If you could actually see detail, it would play into the person with lower texture resolution, anyway.

Yup less detail = more visual cues.   

[Bronk]

Don't want to do No icons? No problem don't try it.
But if there is a no icon arena available  that some may want to try it in... don't dis them for that. freedom of choice is a good thing.

 

Agreed,  but when there is an option for those who don't want icons and you continue to use them... well.....

[gyrene81]

Bronk, you and Krusty missed some very important tidbits in your quote of HiTech...as well as what Motherland and I have said repeatedly.

Hence why we have zoom, and Icons, it is to give you the functionality you have in real life. But there is absolutly no way to duplicate real eyeballs in real space on a monitor with out adding information in a different manner than you have in real lift. Hence why we have the items like icons,ranges, and zoom to duplicate the fuctionality you have in real life.

HiTech

The number one tidbit is the zoom function which allows you to adjust your focus on a distant object so you can see more detail...to a limited distance...and in AH that distance is 18,000 feet...and the the further away the object gets the less detail is shown even with the zoom function to the point where all you can see is black pixels arranged in a shape and that distance is roughly 13,000 feet...regardless of monitor size or computer hardware. Ranges are part of the icon information...the icons are added to give everyone the same functionality as an aid to determine relative distances with a readily available point of reference in an environment where known distances are not as easily ascertained as they would be in real life...however, as I stated before, it can be learned. Neither have anything to do with realism.

So handicapping a guy who has poor display equipment is fair for him how?

So, all of us should have the exact same equipment and exact same connections to the servers, or any changes are a handicap...I wonder what Raptor thinks when he uses his mouse?

Really? Try taking on raptor in his mouse controlled 38 and get back to me.

The guy with a poor display has/had the same choices as the rest of us...same as our choices in what joysticks to buy, what computer parts to use...etc...monetary limitations or not.

[Bronk]

No it's "zoom and icons".  LOL i love when people are telling me what HT means when I can clearly read it.
Again, if you don't want icons simply turn them off.
I fail to see what the problem is.

[Karnak]

Nr RaVeN,

I have flown with no icons.  Chase the dot sucked.

[Bronk]

Nr RaVeN,

I have flown with no icons.  Chase the dot sucked.

Yup making timid players even more timid.