If I happen to HO you

[Impakt]

I do not advocate nor do I practice HO in a co-alt, level merge of two planes. I suppose if a C-202 came right at my 110G or B25H ---well I'd think hard about accommodating the death wish. I've had some nice lengthy fights 1 v 1 isolated (one with PDX 22---very good stick--IMO) comes to mind. I've also done some incredibly inept, and embarrassing idiocies ---usually when I rush to help, or rush to kill (ripping wings, augering, etc). So, yes it isn't much fun to begin a duel with a blazing HO pass, BUT that isn't what I was talking about---AND such encounters are damned rare when I'm on. I DO ASK on F-12 if I see an apparent "duel" : "do you want me to stay out."  And I have a standing request that it may be useful to post here: if you see me engaged with an enemy COME HELP KILL HIM. For me this is a WWII sim not a macho/ peacocking/ duelling arena---so in WWII you came and helped and destroyed the enemy. IMO, a BIG part of SA is awareness of the tool coming to ruin your duel and bounce you.  I do find the "moral outrage" at ANY HO somewhat amusing---often the same people have little gaggles of wirbels that they drag over should they start to lose their "fair fight," not to mention the non ACM stick stirring, neg G stuff that I continue to suspect may make a hash of ANY gunnery solution as a matter of the games ability to calculate it.

   With regard to Boozeman---he is an old squadmate and a valued friend. Highly intelligent, a deadly stick (especially in WBs where he also won several races), and he knows a lot about the planes---so he may have chimed in friendly support--- so don't take it too personally.

[The Fury]

Pervert talks a lot of sense about front quater shots (1st page) totaly agree with him, and this happens a lot to  me i guess im too fair and get taken advantage alot in the MA`s maybe to nice of a guy i dunno.

Also some people think its OK to nose down and hose other players who are trying to duck out of a HO, if i didnt duck it would have been a HO but seeing as im ducking it isnt a HO so its ok??   really annoying people, I never ever HO on the first merge if i see you fire you bet i will return the favour ten times over 

[Stoney]

Why bother learning ACM if you're willing to simply joust at the onset of every engagement?  I'll answer that--because the majority of players value the kill more than the fight.  The problem is that a while back, the majority of the playing community frowned upon HO shots.  These days, the majority thinks the end justifies the means.  I've accepted that.  I'll still call you out on 200 for doing it, and I'm prepared to receive some sort of "bite me" response.  That's just the way the MA's go.

[Yeager]

Why bother learning ACM if you're willing to simply joust at the onset of every engagement? 

ACM is the tool box you utilize to avoid the jousters frontal aggression, reverse on them, and shoot them down with.  Whats the problem again?  By simply spanking these jousters over and over again you motivate them to improve.  OTOH: By being a whiny, dull, predictable mouthpiece on open channel you merely promote and encourage whiny feminine menstrual behaviors in men.  This is bad.

[PJ_Godzilla]

ACM is the tool box you utilize to avoid the jousters frontal aggression, reverse on them, and shoot them down with.  Whats the problem again?  By simply spanking these jousters over and over again you motivate them to improve.  OTOH: By being a whiny, dull, predictable mouthpiece on open channel you merely promote and encourage whiny feminine menstrual behaviors in men.  This is bad.

Bingo. Raising the question, is HO'ing simply bad policy, bad politics, or both?

You seem to say it's a bad policy. I tend to agree for reasons I gave before but will reiterate: my gunnery isn't worth matching 1:1 and I'm also usually flying bad rides for HO'ing.

In any case, per usual, the solution to bad policy is to expose it to competition.

I sold some blow to buy a ho'
Then the ho' walked out th' do'
Now I ain't got no ho'
and no mo' do'
and worst of all
I'm fresh outta blow.

Man, I'd like to get me a stable of ho's and sell 'em onna shtreet.
Then I'd be like an Indian because Arapahoe inna mouth when she don't give me my money.

[Ardy123]

Generally a ho is a bad ACM, it gives up position and its easy to spot. Now that being said, I dislike hos for 1 main reason, I like to fight! Ho shots shorten the fight, and thus I feel ho shots are for people who are searching for instant gratification or are out matched in skill and thus have nothing else in their toolbox of moves to use.

That being said, I have ho'd people when I see an outnumbered situation developing, knowing full well that I will soon be ganged by 4+ people. Which by the way, I also find lame because again, being all about the fight, there is not much of a fight in a 4v1 or greater. But for many, sadly, instead of trying to improve their skills, they run away or do other dweeby tactics such that they can feel 'accomplished'.

[xbrit]

Most players don't even set foot in these forums so all the arguements in the world are not going to change game play. Lets just get out there while we can and have fun, ok we get HO'd sometimes, planes are free up another and go kill them instead of complaining here.

[Steve]

Impakt:   " If I happen to HO you.........."



Impakt:   "...........and you are an experienced player, I will miss and you will quickly acquire a gun solution and kill me."


[Paul Harvey voice]  And that's the rest of the story. Paul Harvey, good day. [/Paul Harvey voice]

[Stoney]

Whats the problem again?

The majority of the time I get HO'd is while I'm engaged with someone else, or directly after I recover from winning a 1v1.  Its just one of those deals where you roll out and are pointed directly at the next guy.  At that point, he has a choice whether to go hot during your merge or not.  If he doesn't, he can maneuver for the kill using ACM.  If he does, he blasts you with his 4X20mm bird, and goes and finds his next victim.  That's what I'm talking about.  I can deal with the solo, DA-style conventional merge.  I'm talking about those situations when a nose-on shot...I don't know why I even try...never mind.

[Yeager]

You just nailed the reason why I dont play in the LW arenas.  Its like rats in a box.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Its like rats in a box.

mmmm.... Rats in a box....

[Wreked]

mmmm.... Rats in a box....

...is that a take out option at IHOP?? with gravey??

...sorry - couldn't resist

...cheers eh!

[Bear76]

I guess because he started it.   

Actually you did. Karaya, I don't think he even got your meaning lol.

[Wiley]

The 2% of the people who read the forums aren't going to change anything, this is true.

What I have trouble understanding when it comes to the HO vs Not HO and the 'Stay out of my duel!' mentality, is it's pretty contrary to what the MA is about, isn't it?

The MA, supposedly, is about taking enough bases for your side to win the war, right?  Pretty much the most effective way to do that is by bullying the other side off their bases so you can capture it, right?  That's generally done with numbers clashing overhead, not with a bracket of one on one duels to decide who gets to keep the base, right?  Leaving the 'nobody bombs or troops' arguments aside...

Regardless of 'Honor' or what have you, the main objective of the arena is to push the other side around.  If everybody in one of the countries upped an armada of Typhoons in front of B24s and C47s, and HO'ed everything in sight, they'd roll the map PDQ.  Effective?  Certainly.  Fun and exciting?  Not particularly.  (Though it would be quite the sight to see...)

It just seems to me that the MA is designed around pushing the other side around more so than rewarding those with the most outstanding ACM capabilities.  Certainly, killing people through superior ACM is a good way to go about things, but it is not always the most effective or efficient, depending on the situation.  In the last week, I've been on the receiving end of some very effective demonstrations of what 3 or 4 fast cannon armed planes in the right hands can do to keep a field suppressed once it's deacked.  Vulching?  Sure.  It's also awfully hard to mount an offensive from that field at that point.

Wiley.

[Impakt]

Impakt:   " If I happen to HO you.........."



Impakt:   "...........and you are an experienced player, I will miss and you will quickly acquire a gun solution and kill me."

Apparently, you didn't read anything I wrote, and hence it is pointless to rebut this. I am neither an inexperienced player nor amongst the elite or even the very good--- with that said it isn't always that easy. I have never understood why SOME (few I hope) people in this game are so given to excessive pride and rudeness. Another sign of the collapse of civility in our society I suppose. One CAN argue forcefully, passionately, and even wittily for one's ideas and against what I have written, but it shouldn't have to be an ad hominem insult.