Author Topic: I have reached a depressing (for me) conclusion... (Read 1726 times)

Karnak · « **on:** October 12, 2000, 08:47:00 PM »

After much thought, I have come to the conclusion that there are no late war RAF fighters that would be appropriate to add to AH non-perk. The Spitfire F.MkXIV, Tempest MkV and Meteor MkI or MkIII (Meteor is here to add depth to late war RAF fighters, not to impinge on the aircraft of the country so beloved of the LW fans{BTW, Meteor WAS the first combat jet in active service by 1 week, Me262 WAS the first jet to see actual combat and by a lot more than a week}) would all dominate the current plane-set. At the very least, they would displace a huge chunk of the current set. In addition, every guy who simply grabs the most powerful ride would be flying whichever of the three were added. I don't want to see an arena of nothing but Spits, I'd prefer to keep the arena of F4U-1Cs.

As compared to the current planeset:

Spitfire F.MkXIV:
Faster than all but the Bf109G-10 (down low the Mustang can outrun it)
Climbs better than all but the Bf109G-10
Can easily outrun anything that it can't out turn
Comparable manueverability to the Spit IX with better high speed handling
Tougher than a Spitfire MkIX (Strengthend MkVIII airframe, which was already stronger than the MkIX, and more armor)
Firepower is good, 2 20mm and 2 50 cals or 2 20mm and 4 .303s
1000lbs of bombs or 8 rockets give it a decent loadout
More fuel and better drop tanks more than make up for its thirstier engine, end result is that it can fly further than the Spit IX

Tempest MkV:
Faster by 20mph on the deck than any plane currently in the AH plane-set, peak speed at 17,000ft, below which most fighting occurs
Initial climb of 4,400ft and better zoom climb than most aircraft in AH
Like the XIV it can outrun anything that can out turn it
Very tough fighter, might even give a P-47 a run for its money
Armed with 4 Hispano MkV cannon, need we say more
1000lbs (2000lbs?) of bombs and 8 (16?) rockets equals good strike aircraft
Range is about the same as a Tiffie

Meteor MkI or MkIII:
Its a jet, it'll out run anything in AH at any altitude
Climbs at about 4,000ft per minute and would out zoom climb everything in AH
Can easily outrun everything, so it fights on its terms like a 'Stang, only worse
Reportedly handled very much like a Tempest, which is to say much better than the Me262
Armed with 4 Hispano MkII 20mm cannon with 195rpg, 'nuff said
No idea about its loadout
Range about like a Tempest

My conclusion is that none of these should be added.

We RAFantics will have to soldier on with the MkIX and MkIb so that its fair to the Americans, Germans, Russians, Japanese and the poor Italians.

Dang, but the MkXIV is fun to fly in combat sims.

Ah well.

Sisu
-Karnak

J_A_B · « **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2000, 09:47:00 PM »

In keeping with your opinion (which is the subject of this thread).....

If you feel that the Tempest and Spit 14 are too good for the MA (and your post does have valid points), there are other late-war British planes.... I am not too familiar with British designations though.

For example, there was a version of the Spitfire which was basically a Mk 9, except it was upgraded with more fuel, a slightly better engine, and a bubble canpoy. I think it appeared sometime in 1944.

Basically, it was applying the "Spit 14" improvements to a Merlin-powered spit.

Such a plane would keep all the good features of the Spit 9--namely, great turning ability, good climb, and easy handling (plus Hispanos), and combine it with greater endurance and better visibility, and slightly more performance. Maybe greater armor too; I'm not sure

*IF* the Spit 14 and Tempest are perk material (and they very well might be), then something like the model of Spitfire I described would definately be an improvement over the current plane. Not a huge improvement, but a considerable one
nonetheless.

J_A_B

[This message has been edited by J_A_B (edited 10-12-2000).]

Karnak · « **Reply #2 on:** October 12, 2000, 09:55:00 PM »

J_A_B,
You're refering to the MkXVI.

It doesn't offer enough to be worth HTC taking the time to model. All that it offers is a bit more fuel. The engine was a Packard Merlin 266, which is an American built Merlin 66, which is what the Spitfire MkIX had. The bubble canopy didn't show up on the MkXVI until 1945.

Basicly the Spitfire MkXVI is a Spitfire MkIX with an American engine. They even posted the same top speed, 408mph.

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 10-12-2000).]

Nath-BDP · « **Reply #3 on:** October 12, 2000, 09:59:00 PM »

How about Mk. XII ? Griffon 61 engine, not as good as XIV but good.

SFRT - Frenchy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 12, 2000, 10:04:00 PM »

Bring the Spit XIV, bring the FW-D9... Bring whatever you want, I will fly my P47 as a main ride hehehe.

Note: I'm already used to not being able to outurn, nor outclimb, nor outrun, nor outdive other planes (especially the mighty Spit9).

Note2: Not a whine, a remark.

Vosper · « **Reply #5 on:** October 12, 2000, 11:21:00 PM »

As mentioned above, the Mk XII Spitfire perhaps? I don't know the stats offhand, but I do recall a passage in "Wing Leader" where Johnston talks about a Spit XII wing/sqn that flew at 12k, because their planes lost performance over 15k - they'd lure the FW's down to their alt to fight.

Cheers

Pongo · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2000, 11:37:00 PM »

Karnak. I dont know. A late mk IX with bubble canopy. Maybe the option to clip the wings. People would fly it and its a great looking plane. The XIV will be here. Just perked.
Dont underestimate the importance of that bubble hood.

Karnak · « **Reply #7 on:** October 13, 2000, 12:04:00 AM »

Nath-BDP and Vosper,
I don't know. The XII would probably introduce a very large amout of the 'They shouldn't have modeled it because they only built 100 of them (actual number built)" typ complaints. That said, I'd not have a problem with it, but I wouldn't use it much. Never liked the clipped wings.
Good idea though.

SFRT - Frenchy,
Yeah, a lot of guys are like you and I. we'll fly our plane, even if there is something distincly better (in fact I think that the vast majority of the guys who post on this board are in the group). The problem would be the mass of guys who'll just fly the 'best" kite. I don't want to see one REALLY dominant aircraft. I feel at this point that the XIV would make the F4U-1C plague look tame.

Pongo,
I really consider the MkXVI too be a 1942 aircraft. It just doesn't offer enough to call it a late war fighter. Same speed, same climb and same armament as the MkIX. The bubble canopy makes a bit of a difference, but not much and we'd have to set the uncomfortable precedent of reaching into 1945 to get it. A Spitfire MkIX with a Malcolm hood would be just about as good (many American pilots said the visibility out of a P-51B with the Malcolm hood was better that the visibility out of the P-51D's bubble canopy).
They could add the MkXVI, I just don't think it'll add anything to the game.

I'm just depressed by my conclusion that I won't get to fly the Spitfire MkXIV (still my favorite kite) in AH. I don't play enough to earn a perk in a single tour, unless guys like Citabria get to fly a perk every other mission. But given my conclusions, I'd rather have it perked and me not able to fly it than to have it ruin the MA. That or never introduced. Same for Tempest.

Sisu
-Karnak

juzz · « **Reply #8 on:** October 13, 2000, 12:44:00 AM »

If HTC added the Spitfire Mk XIV, F4U-4, P-47M, Fw 190D-9, Tempest Mk V and La-7 all in one version - which one do you think you would see the most of in the arena? Well, below 30k anyway.

As for another Spitfire - forget about the Mk XII. It didn't do anything until the V-1's started, and it wasn't that much better than a LF.IX really.

No difference between a Mk XVI(Or Mk VIII) and the F.IX? Lets see. Initial climbrate is at least 700fpm better, speed below 20k is 10-20mph better, carries more fuel, can have RCAF or RAAF markings...

I keep saying the current Mk IX needs those rockets and that 300l german droptank removed, and the 30/90 gallon slipper tanks added. Add a bubble-canopy RCAF Mk XVI with a 50 gallon torpedo drop tank, rockets etc. Or maybe a RAAF Mk VIII.

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 10-13-2000).]

Hristo · « **Reply #9 on:** October 13, 2000, 01:09:00 AM »

If you are into US planes, then AH is the sim for you. They simply dominate here.

RAF or Luftwaffe have that little "...but..." attached to the planeset. HTC will probably fix this disbalance soon, but still the taste will stay bad.

IMO, Spit XIV and Tempest should not be perked. By not perking them, the dweebs will be kept away from the mighty Dora.

But Meteor ? Same as C-Hog. Not historically accurate. If we had V1s and if it could take off only from rear fields to intercept them, maybe.

Karnak, did Meteor shoot down anything except V1 ? Does that tell something ?

StSanta · « **Reply #10 on:** October 13, 2000, 01:21:00 AM »

I gotta agree with karnak's assesment.Other than that: if the D9 had as large an advantage on the rest of the planeset as the Spit XIV, I wouldn't want it introduced. If it proves to be superior or a dweeb ride; perk it.

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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

juzz · « **Reply #11 on:** October 13, 2000, 07:12:00 AM »

Not historically accurate?! LOL! Since when was AH ever a historical recreation?

You're right though, the F4U-1C isn't historically accurate. It should have 8 rocket rails, not 4.

Suave1 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 13, 2000, 07:40:00 AM »

How about mustang mkIa or a mkIII. Could even give it polish markings, Poland after all had the 5th largest air force in wwII, yet only has one plane in AH so far . Of course those aren't late war fighters .

Westy · « **Reply #13 on:** October 13, 2000, 07:55:00 AM »

"I'm just depressed by my conclusion that I won't get to fly the Spitfire MkXIV "

You must have been horrible as a kid in the months before Christmas.
How some people can talk themselves into something is beyond me.

Granted HTC is not adding aircraft at the rate I though they were going to. But I see no reason that your favorite Spitfire won't be included. I think your reasoning is full of holes and only thought out in context of what we have available today in the arena.

But feel free to wallow in sorrow due to an imagined neglect if you must.

At least you got yet ANOTHER Spit XIV topic going.

-Westy

Vermillion · « **Reply #14 on:** October 13, 2000, 08:10:00 AM »

Quote

I feel at this point that the XIV would make the F4U-1C plague look tame.

Unfortunately, I think your correct.

There is only one plane (*MAYBE*) that I can think of that could compete with the Mk.XIV on somewhat equal terms, and thats the Yak-3 with the VK-107 engine (approximately 100 built). And even then, the Yak is going to suffer horribly from weak guns and lack of range/droptanks. Plus the Spit could probably outturn the Yak.

I'm not sure there is a good solution.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure