Sherman VC firefly vs. M4A3 (75mm)

[Guppy35]

What are the advantages/disadvantages of this?

It looks accurate

[humble]

What we really need is the PZIIIj for both N Africa and 1942 EF. By May 1942 the Pz IVG was in production so the up armor was well before the current version, but the 40L/43 gun (Early G) would be much more appropriate for MW scenarios. Add an M-10 on allied side and you'd have all you need for N africa...

[FireDrgn]

waffle said wet version   ... does this mean the amphibious m4  or am i reading too much in to this?

[humble]

waffle said wet version   ... does this mean the amphibious m4  or am i reading too much in to this?

guessing ammo storage...

[Ack-Ack]

waffle said wet version   ... does this mean the amphibious m4  or am i reading too much in to this?

It refers to how the ammunition was stored.  In the original production models, the Sherman had what was referred to as "dry" stowage where the ammunition was stowed in sponsons lined around the inside of the turret.  This lead to the "Ronson" nickname of the Sherman because the tank had a tendency to burn after being hit, not because of the fuel as many believe.  

In later production models, the ammunition stowage was redesigned by using "wet" stowage where the ammunition was stowed in bins under the turret floor that were filled with a water/gylcerine mixture to smoother fires before they became lethal.  There was a US Army study (can't remember where I saw it) that claimed 10%-15% of Shermans with wet stowage burned compared to 80% with dry stowage.


ack-ack

[Clone155]

It will be like a slow T-34/76 with a higher rate of fire.  How do you feel in a T-34/76 against the Panzer IV H?  Kill/death stats in AH indicate that isn't remotely close to a perfect match.

I don't have a problem with the t-34/76 against the panzer, it usually is a one hit kill. The only problem I have is the slow firing rate, which the Sherman won't have a problem with.

Also my first comment meant that I think you got your facts wrong, because I think it was the tiger that took 4 Shermans to take out not the panzer.

[Karnak]

Also my first comment meant that I think you got your facts wrong, because I think it was the tiger that took 4 Shermans to take out not the panzer.

Your first comment was not a reply to me.

The K/D ratio of the Panzer IV H vs the T-34/76 massively favored the Panzer IV H prior to the introduction of HVAP rounds for the T-34/76.  The M4A3 (75) will not have HVAP rounds.  No matter how comfortable you personally are in the T-34/76 vs the Panzer IV H it is undeniable that the Panzer IV H dominates that matchup, barring the HVAP rounds, which I have not looked at their effect.

The M4A3 (76) will be a much more even fight for the Panzer IV H.

[jay]

the M4A3(75MM) was out matched by the panzerIV even 2 vs 1

[321BAR]

the M4A3(75MM) was out matched by the panzerIV even 2 vs 1

also stated above by

The Panzer IV modeled in AH is the 1944 Ausf. H. It has nearly double the frontal armor thickness of the early Pz IV models the M4 faced in Africa, and the gun is an upgraded long-barreled KwK 40 L/48. The 76mm M4 is a good match for the Pz IV, but the 75 mm will be inferior in firepower.

If we had the PnzrIV D then we'd have a perfect match for the M4A3/75

[Karnak]

also stated above by

The Panzer IV D would get slaughtered by the T-34/76 or M4A3 (75).

[jay]

If we had the PnzrIV D then we'd have a perfect match for the M4A3/75

model but good representaion IMO

[321BAR]

The Panzer IV D would get slaughtered by the T-34/76 or M4A3 (75).

ok...which model panzer IV am i thinking of then? i'm losing it...

[Pongo]

To answer the original OP.
The 75 on the sherman was more accurate, had better HE rounds and actual smoke rounds compared to the 17 lbr on the firefly. It had a higher rate of fire and more ammo.
The M4a3 kept its bow mg.

There is no difference at all in the turret armour, unless you think the radio box on the back of the turret is better armour. There are Sherman turrets with more armour, but you could see it on any model Sherman.
There was a slight decrease in the negative elevation of the gun I believe. The gun had to be mounted on its side to fit.
The M4A3 75 could have a one axis stabilization that will likely not be in the game.
The weaknesses of the 17 lb gun in accuracy and in rounds shattering on contact with heavy armour are also not in the game.
By its factory specs the Firefly gun was near equal to the Panther gun, in the field it was not due to weaknesses in ammo design. It certainly could tear up Panzer IVs and Stugs though.

The Panzer IV Started the war with a 75mm gun of 24 calibers. Meant for infantry support. In the mid war they upgraded to a 43 Caliber 75mm for  combating T 34s. The version we have in the game has the final 48 Caliber 75mm. The Sherman has a 34 Caliber gun and the Firefly is a 60 Caliber 76.2mm.

The calibers of these guns generally equate to the weight of the shell and the velocity of the round, and that impacts penetration of course.

So, The M4A3 76 is a good match(a bit better maybe) then the Panzer IV we have in the game.
The M4A3 75, will be superior to both at taking down towns and anti tank guns. But inferior to both in anti tank capability.

[Kenne]

The calibers of these guns generally equate to the weight of the shell

no
caliber refers to length of the barrel.
if the barrel is 43 calibers, and the projetile is 75mm, then 75mmx43calibers=3325mm/25.4=127"/12"=10.5'.

so a 75mm gun of 43 calibers has a barrel lenght of 10.5 feet.

but however, the longer barrel DOES increase velocity and acuracy and range. the longer barrel
allows for more complete burning of the propellant charge and thus the above.

the PkW IV was used thru out the war, and the shell (75mmx495mm (AufF2) the barrel
got longer and longer, giving it the range and penatrating power.

for toejams and giggles the M3 gun used on the M4 is 75mmx350mm!

so can everyone see just by looking at the length of the shells for both of these 75mm rounds that the American sherman is just a waste of time!!

we HAVE a sherman...the Firefly...why the Frick do we need the Ronson?

[Angus]

For the rockets and other goodies hopefully upcoming