Author Topic: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results  (Read 26318 times)

Offline ink

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #465 on: July 14, 2010, 05:28:48 PM »
I'm not going to critique TJ or Grizz obviously I got beat by Grizz so for me to offer advise to those in the final is observed.  All I can say if you guys are critiquing those 2 you got balls  :D all I can say is sign up for the next tournament and try your unbeatable merges then.

I see nothing wrong with those merges - looks textbook to me

"Got balls" ???   What does having balls got to do with anything??

lol I never said "unbeatable" merge, I explained my thoughts on merging simple as that.

besides I DO have balls...... all 9 of my kids are Mine.

Offline TnDep

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #466 on: July 14, 2010, 06:01:37 PM »
"Got balls" ???   What does having balls got to do with anything??

lol I never said "unbeatable" merge, I explained my thoughts on merging simple as that.

besides I DO have balls...... all 9 of my kids are Mine.

 :rofl :rofl INK  that last sentence got me to laughing  :salute

maybe I was alittle offensive due to the nature of the closing of the tournament getting a discussion started on merges instead of just a hefty  :salute for the great fights them 2 had. 

Your a class act and I apologize didn't mean to stir the pot
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When you think you know it all, someone almost always proves you wrong.  Always strive to be better then who you are as a person, a believer, a husband, a father, and a friend.  May peace be in your life and God Bless - TnDep

Offline ink

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #467 on: July 14, 2010, 06:41:51 PM »
:rofl :rofl INK  that last sentence got me to laughing  :salute

maybe I was alittle offensive due to the nature of the closing of the tournament getting a discussion started on merges instead of just a hefty  :salute for the great fights them 2 had. 

Your a class act and I apologize didn't mean to stir the pot

 :D

No problem.

I was not trying to give them crap...well maybe Grizz.... :D

you are right though I shoulda kept those thoughts to myself or started a new  topic about it.

sorry Grizz and TJ if you got offended. 

Offline grizz441

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #468 on: July 14, 2010, 06:52:13 PM »
sorry Grizz and TJ if you got offended.  

No offense taken because you are wrong.   :)

No matter what you do to try to angle off the bad guy, all he has to do is point his nose at your "hook around" merge and it's the same as the original situation of going nose on nose.  No matter what you do to create some sort of offset entrance angle, it is simply nullified by the bad guy pointing his nose at you.  If you continue to try to avoid the nose on nose merge and fly by with lateral separation, he will have an angles advantage, as his nose will be pointed at the side of your aircraft as it passes.  He now only has to turn around 150 degrees to get his nose around to you whereas you have to turn it around 180 degrees.  Textbook merge in aces high is a nose on nose merge slightly below your enemy (if possible) and enough lateral separation to avoid a head on shot.  

If you do not believe me we could film some merges in the DA, you doing that and then turning on tracking in the film viewer to show that all you are doing is burning E and not actually advancing your angular position.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 07:02:52 PM by grizz441 »

Offline SIK1

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #469 on: July 14, 2010, 07:06:11 PM »
Wow! I watched all ten films and the fights were entertaining and informative from both perspectives. Very nice flying from both TonyJoey and grizz.

Congrats TonyJoey on your victory. 
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Offline katanaso

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #470 on: July 14, 2010, 07:44:23 PM »
I know Tony would not take that shot, so it was easy to hold guns there, even with the tourny on the line.  I knew I had an ever so slight edge on both of those immels in fights 4 and 5, but not enough to sully a good fight that I thought I could still win in my #1 ride.

Yep, it's one thing in the arena, it's another thing in a 1 v 1 match for fun. :)
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Offline katanaso

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #471 on: July 14, 2010, 07:57:42 PM »
If someone stays at 10k on the merge, while the opponent drops down to say 8.5k, he will have a big advangtage. ANything you can do, he can cut inside. He will also have more speed to manuever with. While technically you would end up higher than him if yow went staright into the vertical, he would be right behind you for a kill shot.


Yeah, the opponent who dives down to 8.5k is going to have a lot more speed to work with in that situation.  But of course, I'm not talking about just going up and showing the 6.  I was talking more along the lines of going up then working a merge from a higher position (so alt vs speed in terms of E states).

I've only been back for a year now, after being away from this stuff (AH, AW) for 10 years, so I'm going by memory of things that I did way back when I was good at this. :)

It seems that the final fights of these tournaments end up in slow-ish rolling scissors after the merge.

mir
mir
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The most terrifying words in the English language are: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Offline uptown

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #472 on: July 14, 2010, 08:14:39 PM »
I know Tony would not take that shot, so it was easy to hold guns there, even with the tourney on the line.  I knew I had an ever so slight edge on both of those immels in fights 4 and 5, but not enough to sully a good fight that I thought I could still win in my #1 ride.
This is sportsmanship at it's finest gentlemen. To have a shot on 2 different occasions and not take them because he felt they were not "clean" shots, (with the championship on the line), speaks volumes to Grizzs' character and sense of fair play. I <SALUTE> you sir.  :salute
Lighten up Francis

Offline uptown

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #473 on: July 14, 2010, 08:17:08 PM »




besides I DO have balls...... all 9 of my kids are Mine.
9 kids!?  :O I went bald after 3  :cry
Lighten up Francis

Offline TnDep

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #474 on: July 14, 2010, 09:25:12 PM »
9 kids!?  :O I went bald after 3  :cry

Don't feel bad I'm bald after one  :D
~XO Top Gun~ Retired
When you think you know it all, someone almost always proves you wrong.  Always strive to be better then who you are as a person, a believer, a husband, a father, and a friend.  May peace be in your life and God Bless - TnDep

Offline ink

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #475 on: July 14, 2010, 10:26:34 PM »
No offense taken because you are wrong.   :)

No matter what you do to try to angle off the bad guy, all he has to do is point his nose at your "hook around" merge and it's the same as the original situation of going nose on nose.  No matter what you do to create some sort of offset entrance angle, it is simply nullified by the bad guy pointing his nose at you.  If you continue to try to avoid the nose on nose merge and fly by with lateral separation, he will have an angles advantage, as his nose will be pointed at the side of your aircraft as it passes.  He now only has to turn around 150 degrees to get his nose around to you whereas you have to turn it around 180 degrees.  Textbook merge in aces high is a nose on nose merge slightly below your enemy (if possible) and enough lateral separation to avoid a head on shot.  

If you do not believe me we could film some merges in the DA, you doing that and then turning on tracking in the film viewer to show that all you are doing is burning E and not actually advancing your angular position.

well lets just say I wont continue this convo here :D


9 kids!?  :O I went bald after 3  :cry

a blessing and punishment all at the same time. :(

Offline grizz441

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #476 on: July 14, 2010, 10:36:06 PM »
rgr :)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 11:38:15 PM by grizz441 »

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #477 on: July 14, 2010, 11:24:21 PM »
Actually the diving DA merge works well in the MA to avoid a HO.  I'll talk about this in terms of both the MA and DA to point out some similarities and differences.

When you dive under your opponent you gain speed (In the MA this forces your opponent to go neg G's to keep his nose on you... a difficult shot to track).  In both the MA and the DA, once you're under and the distance/timing is right (just before the merge) you want to nose up toward your opponent (not a true nose to nose) forcing a high deflection angle slightly below his nose.  This is almost impossible for a HOer to hit in the MA.  In either case you're now bleeding speed while your opponent is nose down gaining speed.  If he tries to track the shot he's also bleeding E.

Quick quiz:  Who do you think will get over the top of an immelman first after this and who will have the tighter turn over the top?  Correct, the guy who dove under partly because he's already losing speed and partly because he's already started on the immel while the other guy is still nose down.  

Not only will he get over the top sooner but, now with less speed, he'll be able to go over the top, nose down then nose back up at the faster opponent coming over.  This gains angles for the second time in the same move.

Note that the E states haven't significantly changed.  The guy who dove under is managing his E better to gain angles.

Since I started using this merge in the MA I haven't been HO'd and I've been able to aquire peoples sixes a lot faster than I used to.

Grizz is right, you can't win an angles fight with lateral seperation in a similar plane match-up.  There's no way to convert speed to angles without giving up E if you don't use the vertical and if you're the guy coming down you've already lost twice the vertical angle of the merge.

That's why all the top duelers use this merge.

[EDIT]  Of course, I always lose in the first round.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 11:39:53 PM by BaldEagl »
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline mechanic

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #478 on: July 15, 2010, 01:30:51 AM »
Another important factor with stick like grizz or joey. Sticks who practice this often will often be more dangerous from a slight E disadvantage than a slight E advantage. They both knew the other was savvy to counter attacks and thus both knew the danger of being slightly too fast to turn but not fast enough in a rope. At this level of competition no body wants to be the one popped essentially running vertically.
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline waystin2

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Re: Fourth Tri-Annual Dueling Bracket & Results
« Reply #479 on: July 15, 2010, 08:01:19 AM »
As I've said before I think the rules shuld be changed to where the fights happen at 23/24. on the deck.

With all due respect TJ, I am not in favor of this as a potential change to the duel bracket.

 :salute

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